Preview
FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/19/2020 08:41 PM INDEX NO. 150315/2019
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 152 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/19/2020
EXHIBIT 2
FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/19/2020 08:41 PM INDEX NO. 150315/2019
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 152 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/19/2020
Deponent corrected final transcript 1
SUPREME COURT OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK
COUNTY OF NEW YORK
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - x
MICHAEL I. KNOPF, NORMA KNOPF, and
DELPHI CAPITAL MANAGEMENT LLC,
Plaintiffs, Index No.:
113227/09
-against-
MICHAEL HAYDEN SANFORD, PURSUIT HOLDINGS, LLC,
SANFORD PARTNERS, LP, MH SANFORD & CO., LLC
and WYNDCLYFFE, LLC,
Defendants,
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - x
745 Fifth Avenue
5th Floor
New York, New York
November 1, 2019
3:00 p.m.
DEPOSITION OF MICHAEL HAYDEN SANFORD,
Defendant herein, pursuant to Court Order, and
held at the above-noted time and place before
Debra J. Gumpel, a Notary Public of the State
of New York.
CINDY AFANADOR COURT REPORTING, INC.
1-877-DEPO-YOU
FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/19/2020 08:41 PM INDEX NO. 150315/2019
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 152 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/19/2020
Deponent corrected final transcript 8
1 MICHAEL HAYDEN SANFORD
2 general number. And when I asked Frank, I
3 said, "what number can someone call," because
4 my only experience was walking into the First
5 Department on the ground floor. And Frank
6 specifically said, "no, they have a huge
7 building behind. You can call upstairs also."
8 So when I called Frank, I said, "okay. What
9 number?" And I, again, believe he said he
10 would call me back. And he did. And he gave
11 me a number, which I don't remember what it
12 was. But then I called Nick and gave him that
13 number.
14 Q You did not call Mr. Feldman and
15 gave that number?
16 A I don't think I did. It's
17 possible I did, but I don't think I did. I
18 think it was just Nick.
19 Q Did Mr. Esposito represent to you
20 that it was a switchboard number that he was
21 giving you?
22 A I thought I asked them for a main
23 number upstairs.
24 Q So were you testifying truthfully
25 when you said that Melissa Ringel just took a
CINDY AFANADOR COURT REPORTING, INC.
1-877-DEPO-YOU
FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/19/2020 08:41 PM INDEX NO. 150315/2019
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 152 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/19/2020
Deponent corrected final transcript 9
1 MICHAEL HAYDEN SANFORD
2 call from the switchboard?
3 A I thought that's what happened.
4 That's why I was relieved --
5 Q So it was a coincidence that they
6 ended up speaking to Ms. Ringel?
7 A I believed that. And I was
8 relieved when I called Nick when this debacle
9 existed, or whatever you want to call it. And
10 I asked Nick, "tell me what happened on the
11 call," because --
12 Q Simple question. You believe that
13 Esposito gave you a number for a
14 switchboard?
15 A Yes.
16 Q And it was a switchboard
17 upstairs?
18 A It was definitely an upstairs
19 room. Because I said, "is there a number
20 upstairs?"
21 Q What do you mean "upstairs"?
22 A Versus downstairs walk-in lobby.
23 I didn't know what number you would call. My
24 first question was," is there anyone other
25 than downstairs" -- a court attorney there --
CINDY AFANADOR COURT REPORTING, INC.
1-877-DEPO-YOU
FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/19/2020 08:41 PM INDEX NO. 150315/2019
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 152 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/19/2020
Deponent corrected final transcript 10
1 MICHAEL HAYDEN SANFORD
2 "other than this downstairs court attorney,
3 the intake window for stuff, is there anyone
4 else someone can call to confirm whether an
5 order was decided or resolved, whatever." I
6 specifically said, "anybody else someone can
7 call, please, how does someone do this? Is
8 there anyone else?"
9 Q So you believe it was a
10 coincidence that Akerman just ended up
11 speaking to Ringel?
12 A Now I don't know what happened.
13 But I do sincerely know that Akerman had no
14 idea who he was calling. Feldman certainly
15 didn't have any idea. But when I got the
16 number from Frank, Frank did know what number
17 he was giving me.
18 Q Why did you ask Mr. Esposito to
19 give you this information about the Appellate
20 Division? Had he ever worked there, to your
21 knowledge?
22 A No, but --
23 Q Was he an appellate practitioner,
24 to your knowledge?
25 A No.
CINDY AFANADOR COURT REPORTING, INC.
1-877-DEPO-YOU
FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/19/2020 08:41 PM INDEX NO. 150315/2019
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 152 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/19/2020
Deponent corrected final transcript 11
1 MICHAEL HAYDEN SANFORD
2 Q Did he ever represent to you that
3 he had filed an appeal in the First
4 Department?
5 A I understood that he had someone
6 in his life -- I thought it was a relative or
7 a wife or -- I don't recall exactly -- that
8 did work there and he knew how the place
9 worked.
10 Q Did he represent to you that he
11 knew how the place worked?
12 A Generally. It wasn't as if he was
13 giving me any inside information. But I went
14 to him because I wanted to file a complaint.
15 I had issues. I was very upset about how
16 things were proceeding. And he said he would
17 help me get a lawyer that was very experienced
18 in the place. Ultimately that turned out to
19 be Mr. McGuire who was a judge there, former
20 judge there. And before that happened, he
21 said he felt I was being screwed, and that
22 it's not a bad place, and that he did not
23 understand why I was getting screwed.
24 Q Did he ever directly tell you
25 prior to this conversation you had about the
CINDY AFANADOR COURT REPORTING, INC.
1-877-DEPO-YOU
FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/19/2020 08:41 PM INDEX NO. 150315/2019
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 152 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/19/2020
Deponent corrected final transcript 17
1 MICHAEL HAYDEN SANFORD
2 A You asked me, did I give Dorsey
3 and Whitney a phone number. And I said I
4 did.
5 Q Did you give them that number?
6 You had plenty of chances to think about it,
7 read about it --
8 A I have no idea, after all these
9 years. I got a number, and ten minutes later
10 I gave it to Nick Akerman, and that was it.
11 Q Do you doubt that that's the
12 number that you gave Mr. Akerman,
13 212-340-0539?
14 A Here's what I know. I asked Mr.
15 Esposito for a number and I gave that number
16 to Mr. Akerman.
17 Q You will agree that the document
18 that your former attorney, Dorsey and Whitney,
19 filed in Federal Court shows that the number
20 that was called is 212-340-0539?
21 A I'm not disputing that.
22 Q Fine. Are you suggesting that
23 instead of calling the number that you told
24 Mr. Akerman he should call, he did his own
25 research and came up with a different
CINDY AFANADOR COURT REPORTING, INC.
1-877-DEPO-YOU
FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/19/2020 08:41 PM INDEX NO. 150315/2019
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 152 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/19/2020
Deponent corrected final transcript 18
1 MICHAEL HAYDEN SANFORD
2 number?
3 A I'm not suggesting anything. I am
4 just telling you factually. I asked what
5 number can someone call to one person -- I'm
6 not fighting with you on this. I asked Mr.
7 Esposito, and he gave me a number. I don't
8 remember what that number was. But Mr.
9 Akerman asked, "wKere does he call","and I
10 gave him the same number I was given by
11 Esposito. And that's the only thing I did.
12 Q Did Mr. Esposito represent to you
13 that the First Department had a desk or a
14 number or a division to call to obtain the
15 clarification of a number?
16 A He said there are people upstairs
17 that do this.
18 Q And do what in particular?
19 A You can call and ask them about
20 the procedural status of stuff.
21 MR. BERRY: I'm going to ask
22 the reporter to mark as Exhibit 3,
23 your retainer agreement with Mr.
24 Esposito.
25 (Whereupon, Retainer
CINDY AFANADOR COURT REPORTING, INC.
1-877-DEPO-YOU
FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/19/2020 08:41 PM INDEX NO. 150315/2019
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 152 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/19/2020
Deponent corrected final transcript 19
1 MICHAEL HAYDEN SANFORD
2 Agreement, dated January 11, 2016,
3 was marked as Exhibit 3 for
4 identification, as of this date.)
5 Q This agreement is dated January
6 11, 2016; isn't that correct?
7 A Yes.
8 Q And that's approximately the same
9 date you spoke to Mr. Esposito; he gave you
10 the number to call for clarification?
11 A I think he gave me the number a
12 day or two before, I believe. Because this
13 engagement wasn't actually my idea. I didn't
14 try to hire him. I didn't think --
15 Q How did it come to pass that you
16 hired him?
17 A I was walking out of the post
18 office, and he gave me a phone call and said
19 he was going to help me get a great lawyer,
DQG
20 but it would save me money. He's not going to
21 charge me a lot if he shepherded it through,
22 and overall it would cost me less because he
23 would do his piece for a flat fee, and kind of
24 get me in there to a firm I wouldn't otherwise
25 be able to get to. And I said "thanks." And
CINDY AFANADOR COURT REPORTING, INC.
1-877-DEPO-YOU
FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/19/2020 08:41 PM INDEX NO. 150315/2019
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 152 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/19/2020
Deponent corrected final transcript 20
1 MICHAEL HAYDEN SANFORD
2 then he said, I should hire him for a flat
3 fee. And I said, "I don't really need two
4 lawyers." And he said, "well, they're going
5 to charge you a lot." And I don't recall
6 exactly, but I think he at one point asked me
7 in that or a prior phone call, how much was my
8 budget for someone taking on all these
9 matters. And I said, I guess -- because every
10 other firm wanted hundreds of thousands of
11 bucks. I wasn't going to get one firm and
WKHP
12 give him half a million. And he said, well,
13 how about he gets $50,000 --
14 Q We don't have very much time
15 today. So I would appreciate you answering
16 the question that's asked, and let me go on to
17 the next one, because you're way past the
18 scope of the question that was asked. Okay.
19 When do you believe you signed the agreement
20 with Mr. Esposito?
21 A When?
22 Q Yes. What day?
23 A I don't know. Whatever it says on
24 the contract. I don't remember. It says
25 date, January 11th.
CINDY AFANADOR COURT REPORTING, INC.
1-877-DEPO-YOU
FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/19/2020 08:41 PM INDEX NO. 150315/2019
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 152 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/19/2020
Deponent corrected final transcript 21
1 MICHAEL HAYDEN SANFORD
2 Q Do you believe it was a day or two
3 before that, that Mr. Esposito reached you on
4 the phone and proposed that he play this
5 role?
6 A I think he proposed this role and
7 wanted me to hire him all within 24 hours,
8 same day.
9 Q When did he tell you --
10 A It was in the morning or so, he
11 called me, and --
12 Q Approximately what day in relation
13 to January 11th did you have this
14 communication with Mr. Esposito?
15 A I guess it was on January 10th or
16 January 11th.
17 Q Okay. Fine. What considerations
18 did you enter into in reaching the $50,000
19 amount?
20 A As I was saying to you before, we
21 had discussed what my budget was for the law
22 firm I was going to hire. I don't even think
23 we discussed Dechert then.
24 Q Did you agree to pay $50,000?
25 A I agreed to pay an amount which
CINDY AFANADOR COURT REPORTING, INC.
1-877-DEPO-YOU
FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/19/2020 08:41 PM INDEX NO. 150315/2019
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 152 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/19/2020
Deponent corrected final transcript 22
1 MICHAEL HAYDEN SANFORD
2 wound up to be ten percent of what I was going
3 to pay the bigger firm.
4 Q As of January 11th, you knew you
5 were going to pay the bigger firm $500,000?
6 A I said to him -- when he asked me
7 the day before -- because he was trying to
8 find me a law firm, he said, "how much could
9 you afford a top flight law firm?" And I said
10 to him," everyone else wanted two, three,
11 four hundred thousand." "What would it cost
12 me?" He and I discussed it. I'm not sure
13 whose idea it was. But I think ultimately I
14 said, "okay, I guess, taking all these cases
15 and all these things, would half a million do
16 it?"
17 Q Did you have half a million
18 dollars on hand?
19 A Of course I did not.
20 Q When were you planning to get this
21 half a million dollars?
22 A When Pursuit sold the apartment,
IXQG
23 that was going to find Pursuit's defense and
24 all of my company's defenses.
25 Q Did Pursuit have a buyer at the
CINDY AFANADOR COURT REPORTING, INC.
1-877-DEPO-YOU
FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/19/2020 08:41 PM INDEX NO. 150315/2019
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 152 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/19/2020
Deponent corrected final transcript 23
1 MICHAEL HAYDEN SANFORD
2 time, a willing buyer?
3 A Yeah. I think for a couple of
4 years.
5 Q Were there any current obstacles
6 to the sale at the time you spoke to Mr.
7 Esposito?
8 A The buyers' prior title company
9 and other title companies were intimidated
10 because the Knopfs kept on suing and placing
11 notice of pendency on the property, and they
12 didn't care even if it appeared there were no
13 restraints, they wanted to have such a high
14 level of comfort that no title person could
15 get over the hump of, was it a hundred percent
16 certain that Pursuit could sell and there were
17 no restraints. And I didn't know what to do
18 to prove that. So the buyers got a title
19 company that reviewed things. And they came
20 down, it appeared, to one simple question: was
21 the last restraint, the Sweeney restraint,
22 dissolved or not dissolved. I believe that
23 was the only remaining question of fact.
24 Q Were there any judicial filings
25 that presented a problem at that point in
CINDY AFANADOR COURT REPORTING, INC.
1-877-DEPO-YOU
FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/19/2020 08:41 PM INDEX NO. 150315/2019
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 152 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/19/2020
Deponent corrected final transcript 24
1 MICHAEL HAYDEN SANFORD
2 time?
3 A There was the confusion of why did
4 the subsequent December order appear to have a
5 contrary finding, and later on --
6 Q Contrary to what?
7 MR. BERRY: Off the record.
8 (Whereupon, a discussion was
9 held off the record.)
10 MR. BERRY: Let's go back on
11 the record. I'm going to ask the
12 court reporter to mark as Exhibit
13 4, an Order by Judge Sweeney,
14 dated October 22, 2015.
15 (Whereupon, Order by Judge
16 Sweeney dated October 22, 2015,
17 was marked as Exhibit 4 for
18 identification, as of this date.)
19 Q Are you familiar with Judge
20 Sweeney's October 22, 2015 escrow order?
21 A Yes. I was in person there.
22 Q Was this an impediment to
23 convincing Phillips that he could obtain clear
24 title?
25 A When this was issued he couldn't
CINDY AFANADOR COURT REPORTING, INC.
1-877-DEPO-YOU
FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/19/2020 08:41 PM INDEX NO. 150315/2019
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 152 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/19/2020
Deponent corrected final transcript 25
1 MICHAEL HAYDEN SANFORD
2 get clear title.
3 Q Well, was it as of January 9th,
4 10th, when you spoke with Mr. Esposito, was
5 Mr. Phillips telling you that this order
6 remained a problem?
7 A Phillips -- well, Phillips said
8 his title company wanted clarity that this had
9 been dissolved.
10 Q The October 22, 2015 escrow
11 order?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Did you make a motion to vacate
14 that order?
15 A Yes.
16 Q What happened to that motion?
17 A The motion was denied.
18 Q Did you tell Mr. Phillips that
19 that motion had been denied?
20 A I don't recall.
21 Q Pardon?
22 A I don't recall.
23 Q Will you agree that the motion
24 denying your request to vacate the escrow
25 order was entered on December 29, 2015?
CINDY AFANADOR COURT REPORTING, INC.
1-877-DEPO-YOU
FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/19/2020 08:41 PM INDEX NO. 150315/2019
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 152 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/19/2020
Deponent corrected final transcript 26
1 MICHAEL HAYDEN SANFORD
2 A That was the date.
3 Q That was the date?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Did you give a copy of that order
6 to Mr. Phillips or anyone representing Mr.
7 Phillips?
8 A Again, I don't recall. I know
9 that I must have shown different attorneys,
10 including closing people, and ultimately it
PDGH
11 was confirmed that that order was because it
12 was moot. There was nothing to vacate.
13 MR. BERRY: I'm going to ask
14 the reporter to mark as Exhibit 5,
15 an e-mail you sent to Nick Akerman
16 on January 2016.
17 (Whereupon, an e-mail was
18 marked as Exhibit 5 for
19 identification, as of this date.)
20 A Okay. I sent it to Nick.
21 Q Why did you send this order to Mr.
22 Akerman?
23 A I don't remember my thought
24 process then. I don't remember why.
Preview
FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/19/2020 08:41 PM INDEX NO. 150315/2019 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 152 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/19/2020 EXHIBIT 2 FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/19/2020 08:41 PM INDEX NO. 150315/2019 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 152 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/19/2020 Deponent corrected final transcript 1 SUPREME COURT OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK COUNTY OF NEW YORK - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - x MICHAEL I. KNOPF, NORMA KNOPF, and DELPHI CAPITAL MANAGEMENT LLC, Plaintiffs, Index No.: 113227/09 -against- MICHAEL HAYDEN SANFORD, PURSUIT HOLDINGS, LLC, SANFORD PARTNERS, LP, MH SANFORD & CO., LLC and WYNDCLYFFE, LLC, Defendants, - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - x 745 Fifth Avenue 5th Floor New York, New York November 1, 2019 3:00 p.m. DEPOSITION OF MICHAEL HAYDEN SANFORD, Defendant herein, pursuant to Court Order, and held at the above-noted time and place before Debra J. Gumpel, a Notary Public of the State of New York. CINDY AFANADOR COURT REPORTING, INC. 1-877-DEPO-YOU FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/19/2020 08:41 PM INDEX NO. 150315/2019 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 152 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/19/2020 Deponent corrected final transcript 8 1 MICHAEL HAYDEN SANFORD 2 general number. And when I asked Frank, I 3 said, "what number can someone call," because 4 my only experience was walking into the First 5 Department on the ground floor. And Frank 6 specifically said, "no, they have a huge 7 building behind. You can call upstairs also." 8 So when I called Frank, I said, "okay. What 9 number?" And I, again, believe he said he 10 would call me back. And he did. And he gave 11 me a number, which I don't remember what it 12 was. But then I called Nick and gave him that 13 number. 14 Q You did not call Mr. Feldman and 15 gave that number? 16 A I don't think I did. It's 17 possible I did, but I don't think I did. I 18 think it was just Nick. 19 Q Did Mr. Esposito represent to you 20 that it was a switchboard number that he was 21 giving you? 22 A I thought I asked them for a main 23 number upstairs. 24 Q So were you testifying truthfully 25 when you said that Melissa Ringel just took a CINDY AFANADOR COURT REPORTING, INC. 1-877-DEPO-YOU FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/19/2020 08:41 PM INDEX NO. 150315/2019 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 152 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/19/2020 Deponent corrected final transcript 9 1 MICHAEL HAYDEN SANFORD 2 call from the switchboard? 3 A I thought that's what happened. 4 That's why I was relieved -- 5 Q So it was a coincidence that they 6 ended up speaking to Ms. Ringel? 7 A I believed that. And I was 8 relieved when I called Nick when this debacle 9 existed, or whatever you want to call it. And 10 I asked Nick, "tell me what happened on the 11 call," because -- 12 Q Simple question. You believe that 13 Esposito gave you a number for a 14 switchboard? 15 A Yes. 16 Q And it was a switchboard 17 upstairs? 18 A It was definitely an upstairs 19 room. Because I said, "is there a number 20 upstairs?" 21 Q What do you mean "upstairs"? 22 A Versus downstairs walk-in lobby. 23 I didn't know what number you would call. My 24 first question was," is there anyone other 25 than downstairs" -- a court attorney there -- CINDY AFANADOR COURT REPORTING, INC. 1-877-DEPO-YOU FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/19/2020 08:41 PM INDEX NO. 150315/2019 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 152 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/19/2020 Deponent corrected final transcript 10 1 MICHAEL HAYDEN SANFORD 2 "other than this downstairs court attorney, 3 the intake window for stuff, is there anyone 4 else someone can call to confirm whether an 5 order was decided or resolved, whatever." I 6 specifically said, "anybody else someone can 7 call, please, how does someone do this? Is 8 there anyone else?" 9 Q So you believe it was a 10 coincidence that Akerman just ended up 11 speaking to Ringel? 12 A Now I don't know what happened. 13 But I do sincerely know that Akerman had no 14 idea who he was calling. Feldman certainly 15 didn't have any idea. But when I got the 16 number from Frank, Frank did know what number 17 he was giving me. 18 Q Why did you ask Mr. Esposito to 19 give you this information about the Appellate 20 Division? Had he ever worked there, to your 21 knowledge? 22 A No, but -- 23 Q Was he an appellate practitioner, 24 to your knowledge? 25 A No. CINDY AFANADOR COURT REPORTING, INC. 1-877-DEPO-YOU FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/19/2020 08:41 PM INDEX NO. 150315/2019 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 152 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/19/2020 Deponent corrected final transcript 11 1 MICHAEL HAYDEN SANFORD 2 Q Did he ever represent to you that 3 he had filed an appeal in the First 4 Department? 5 A I understood that he had someone 6 in his life -- I thought it was a relative or 7 a wife or -- I don't recall exactly -- that 8 did work there and he knew how the place 9 worked. 10 Q Did he represent to you that he 11 knew how the place worked? 12 A Generally. It wasn't as if he was 13 giving me any inside information. But I went 14 to him because I wanted to file a complaint. 15 I had issues. I was very upset about how 16 things were proceeding. And he said he would 17 help me get a lawyer that was very experienced 18 in the place. Ultimately that turned out to 19 be Mr. McGuire who was a judge there, former 20 judge there. And before that happened, he 21 said he felt I was being screwed, and that 22 it's not a bad place, and that he did not 23 understand why I was getting screwed. 24 Q Did he ever directly tell you 25 prior to this conversation you had about the CINDY AFANADOR COURT REPORTING, INC. 1-877-DEPO-YOU FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/19/2020 08:41 PM INDEX NO. 150315/2019 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 152 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/19/2020 Deponent corrected final transcript 17 1 MICHAEL HAYDEN SANFORD 2 A You asked me, did I give Dorsey 3 and Whitney a phone number. And I said I 4 did. 5 Q Did you give them that number? 6 You had plenty of chances to think about it, 7 read about it -- 8 A I have no idea, after all these 9 years. I got a number, and ten minutes later 10 I gave it to Nick Akerman, and that was it. 11 Q Do you doubt that that's the 12 number that you gave Mr. Akerman, 13 212-340-0539? 14 A Here's what I know. I asked Mr. 15 Esposito for a number and I gave that number 16 to Mr. Akerman. 17 Q You will agree that the document 18 that your former attorney, Dorsey and Whitney, 19 filed in Federal Court shows that the number 20 that was called is 212-340-0539? 21 A I'm not disputing that. 22 Q Fine. Are you suggesting that 23 instead of calling the number that you told 24 Mr. Akerman he should call, he did his own 25 research and came up with a different CINDY AFANADOR COURT REPORTING, INC. 1-877-DEPO-YOU FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/19/2020 08:41 PM INDEX NO. 150315/2019 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 152 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/19/2020 Deponent corrected final transcript 18 1 MICHAEL HAYDEN SANFORD 2 number? 3 A I'm not suggesting anything. I am 4 just telling you factually. I asked what 5 number can someone call to one person -- I'm 6 not fighting with you on this. I asked Mr. 7 Esposito, and he gave me a number. I don't 8 remember what that number was. But Mr. 9 Akerman asked, "wKere does he call","and I 10 gave him the same number I was given by 11 Esposito. And that's the only thing I did. 12 Q Did Mr. Esposito represent to you 13 that the First Department had a desk or a 14 number or a division to call to obtain the 15 clarification of a number? 16 A He said there are people upstairs 17 that do this. 18 Q And do what in particular? 19 A You can call and ask them about 20 the procedural status of stuff. 21 MR. BERRY: I'm going to ask 22 the reporter to mark as Exhibit 3, 23 your retainer agreement with Mr. 24 Esposito. 25 (Whereupon, Retainer CINDY AFANADOR COURT REPORTING, INC. 1-877-DEPO-YOU FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/19/2020 08:41 PM INDEX NO. 150315/2019 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 152 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/19/2020 Deponent corrected final transcript 19 1 MICHAEL HAYDEN SANFORD 2 Agreement, dated January 11, 2016, 3 was marked as Exhibit 3 for 4 identification, as of this date.) 5 Q This agreement is dated January 6 11, 2016; isn't that correct? 7 A Yes. 8 Q And that's approximately the same 9 date you spoke to Mr. Esposito; he gave you 10 the number to call for clarification? 11 A I think he gave me the number a 12 day or two before, I believe. Because this 13 engagement wasn't actually my idea. I didn't 14 try to hire him. I didn't think -- 15 Q How did it come to pass that you 16 hired him? 17 A I was walking out of the post 18 office, and he gave me a phone call and said 19 he was going to help me get a great lawyer, DQG 20 but it would save me money. He's not going to 21 charge me a lot if he shepherded it through, 22 and overall it would cost me less because he 23 would do his piece for a flat fee, and kind of 24 get me in there to a firm I wouldn't otherwise 25 be able to get to. And I said "thanks." And CINDY AFANADOR COURT REPORTING, INC. 1-877-DEPO-YOU FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/19/2020 08:41 PM INDEX NO. 150315/2019 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 152 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/19/2020 Deponent corrected final transcript 20 1 MICHAEL HAYDEN SANFORD 2 then he said, I should hire him for a flat 3 fee. And I said, "I don't really need two 4 lawyers." And he said, "well, they're going 5 to charge you a lot." And I don't recall 6 exactly, but I think he at one point asked me 7 in that or a prior phone call, how much was my 8 budget for someone taking on all these 9 matters. And I said, I guess -- because every 10 other firm wanted hundreds of thousands of 11 bucks. I wasn't going to get one firm and WKHP 12 give him half a million. And he said, well, 13 how about he gets $50,000 -- 14 Q We don't have very much time 15 today. So I would appreciate you answering 16 the question that's asked, and let me go on to 17 the next one, because you're way past the 18 scope of the question that was asked. Okay. 19 When do you believe you signed the agreement 20 with Mr. Esposito? 21 A When? 22 Q Yes. What day? 23 A I don't know. Whatever it says on 24 the contract. I don't remember. It says 25 date, January 11th. CINDY AFANADOR COURT REPORTING, INC. 1-877-DEPO-YOU FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/19/2020 08:41 PM INDEX NO. 150315/2019 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 152 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/19/2020 Deponent corrected final transcript 21 1 MICHAEL HAYDEN SANFORD 2 Q Do you believe it was a day or two 3 before that, that Mr. Esposito reached you on 4 the phone and proposed that he play this 5 role? 6 A I think he proposed this role and 7 wanted me to hire him all within 24 hours, 8 same day. 9 Q When did he tell you -- 10 A It was in the morning or so, he 11 called me, and -- 12 Q Approximately what day in relation 13 to January 11th did you have this 14 communication with Mr. Esposito? 15 A I guess it was on January 10th or 16 January 11th. 17 Q Okay. Fine. What considerations 18 did you enter into in reaching the $50,000 19 amount? 20 A As I was saying to you before, we 21 had discussed what my budget was for the law 22 firm I was going to hire. I don't even think 23 we discussed Dechert then. 24 Q Did you agree to pay $50,000? 25 A I agreed to pay an amount which CINDY AFANADOR COURT REPORTING, INC. 1-877-DEPO-YOU FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/19/2020 08:41 PM INDEX NO. 150315/2019 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 152 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/19/2020 Deponent corrected final transcript 22 1 MICHAEL HAYDEN SANFORD 2 wound up to be ten percent of what I was going 3 to pay the bigger firm. 4 Q As of January 11th, you knew you 5 were going to pay the bigger firm $500,000? 6 A I said to him -- when he asked me 7 the day before -- because he was trying to 8 find me a law firm, he said, "how much could 9 you afford a top flight law firm?" And I said 10 to him," everyone else wanted two, three, 11 four hundred thousand." "What would it cost 12 me?" He and I discussed it. I'm not sure 13 whose idea it was. But I think ultimately I 14 said, "okay, I guess, taking all these cases 15 and all these things, would half a million do 16 it?" 17 Q Did you have half a million 18 dollars on hand? 19 A Of course I did not. 20 Q When were you planning to get this 21 half a million dollars? 22 A When Pursuit sold the apartment, IXQG 23 that was going to find Pursuit's defense and 24 all of my company's defenses. 25 Q Did Pursuit have a buyer at the CINDY AFANADOR COURT REPORTING, INC. 1-877-DEPO-YOU FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/19/2020 08:41 PM INDEX NO. 150315/2019 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 152 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/19/2020 Deponent corrected final transcript 23 1 MICHAEL HAYDEN SANFORD 2 time, a willing buyer? 3 A Yeah. I think for a couple of 4 years. 5 Q Were there any current obstacles 6 to the sale at the time you spoke to Mr. 7 Esposito? 8 A The buyers' prior title company 9 and other title companies were intimidated 10 because the Knopfs kept on suing and placing 11 notice of pendency on the property, and they 12 didn't care even if it appeared there were no 13 restraints, they wanted to have such a high 14 level of comfort that no title person could 15 get over the hump of, was it a hundred percent 16 certain that Pursuit could sell and there were 17 no restraints. And I didn't know what to do 18 to prove that. So the buyers got a title 19 company that reviewed things. And they came 20 down, it appeared, to one simple question: was 21 the last restraint, the Sweeney restraint, 22 dissolved or not dissolved. I believe that 23 was the only remaining question of fact. 24 Q Were there any judicial filings 25 that presented a problem at that point in CINDY AFANADOR COURT REPORTING, INC. 1-877-DEPO-YOU FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/19/2020 08:41 PM INDEX NO. 150315/2019 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 152 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/19/2020 Deponent corrected final transcript 24 1 MICHAEL HAYDEN SANFORD 2 time? 3 A There was the confusion of why did 4 the subsequent December order appear to have a 5 contrary finding, and later on -- 6 Q Contrary to what? 7 MR. BERRY: Off the record. 8 (Whereupon, a discussion was 9 held off the record.) 10 MR. BERRY: Let's go back on 11 the record. I'm going to ask the 12 court reporter to mark as Exhibit 13 4, an Order by Judge Sweeney, 14 dated October 22, 2015. 15 (Whereupon, Order by Judge 16 Sweeney dated October 22, 2015, 17 was marked as Exhibit 4 for 18 identification, as of this date.) 19 Q Are you familiar with Judge 20 Sweeney's October 22, 2015 escrow order? 21 A Yes. I was in person there. 22 Q Was this an impediment to 23 convincing Phillips that he could obtain clear 24 title? 25 A When this was issued he couldn't CINDY AFANADOR COURT REPORTING, INC. 1-877-DEPO-YOU FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/19/2020 08:41 PM INDEX NO. 150315/2019 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 152 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/19/2020 Deponent corrected final transcript 25 1 MICHAEL HAYDEN SANFORD 2 get clear title. 3 Q Well, was it as of January 9th, 4 10th, when you spoke with Mr. Esposito, was 5 Mr. Phillips telling you that this order 6 remained a problem? 7 A Phillips -- well, Phillips said 8 his title company wanted clarity that this had 9 been dissolved. 10 Q The October 22, 2015 escrow 11 order? 12 A Yes. 13 Q Did you make a motion to vacate 14 that order? 15 A Yes. 16 Q What happened to that motion? 17 A The motion was denied. 18 Q Did you tell Mr. Phillips that 19 that motion had been denied? 20 A I don't recall. 21 Q Pardon? 22 A I don't recall. 23 Q Will you agree that the motion 24 denying your request to vacate the escrow 25 order was entered on December 29, 2015? CINDY AFANADOR COURT REPORTING, INC. 1-877-DEPO-YOU FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/19/2020 08:41 PM INDEX NO. 150315/2019 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 152 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/19/2020 Deponent corrected final transcript 26 1 MICHAEL HAYDEN SANFORD 2 A That was the date. 3 Q That was the date? 4 A Yes. 5 Q Did you give a copy of that order 6 to Mr. Phillips or anyone representing Mr. 7 Phillips? 8 A Again, I don't recall. I know 9 that I must have shown different attorneys, 10 including closing people, and ultimately it PDGH 11 was confirmed that that order was because it 12 was moot. There was nothing to vacate. 13 MR. BERRY: I'm going to ask 14 the reporter to mark as Exhibit 5, 15 an e-mail you sent to Nick Akerman 16 on January 2016. 17 (Whereupon, an e-mail was 18 marked as Exhibit 5 for 19 identification, as of this date.) 20 A Okay. I sent it to Nick. 21 Q Why did you send this order to Mr. 22 Akerman? 23 A I don't remember my thought 24 process then. I don't remember why.