Preview
FILED: TOMPKINS COUNTY CLERK 10/12/2020 11:45 AM INDEX NO. EF2020-0162
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 75 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 10/12/2020
CI2020-14346 Index # : EF2020-0162
EXHIBIT “G”
THUMB DRIVE #3 (PART 3 OF 3)
FILED: TOMPKINS COUNTY CLERK 10/12/2020 11:45 AM INDEX NO. EF2020-0162
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 75 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 10/12/2020
CI2020-14346 42 Index #: EF2020-0162
1 D. LAVIGNE
2 That's why it had to come down. But it was
3 -- it was close enough.
4 Q. So when you say there was a lot of
5 black mold, you knew you were demolishing it
6 when you bought it.
7 A. Correct.
8 Q. The house wasn't really liveable?
9 A. No.
10 Q. What -- were there any issues other
11 than the black mold?
12 A. There were a lot of things that were
13 not to code in that house. There were
14 multiple heat sources, a coal stove was about
15 six inches from the electrical panel in the
16 basement. You could see where the studs
17 were with the black mold. And if we had to
18 -- if we took the drywall down and tried to
19 remediate the mold, I believe it was studded
20 with two-by-fours, which is not to code, so
21 we would have had to restud the entire house
22 with two-by-sixes.
23 Q. So why'd you get an appraisal on it,
24 wouldn't it -- wouldn't the value be the
25 land plus the cost to demolish it?
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2 A. I have no idea.
3 Q. Okay. You know, I'm just wondering,
4 you were going to put the offer on the
5 house, you don't know if there was an
6 appraisal.
7 A. Yeah, I -- I'm not a -- I'm not a
8 hundred percent sure.
9 Q. Okay.
10 A. It may have been -- it may have
11 honestly been what the -- what was on the
12 tax bill the prior year, I -- I can't tell
13 you for sure.
14 Q. Okay. The hundred and twenty K
15 mortgage, who was that through?
16 A. CFCU.
17 Q. What is the current balance on the
18 mortgage?
19 A. I believe it's somewhere around a
20 hundred and eight thousand.
21 Q. Are you still paying it?
22 A. No.
23 Q. When did you stop paying it?
24 A. This month, July.
25 Q. And why?
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2 A. They refused to help me with
3 demolition of the house. Due to the Town's
4 requirement that it be -- it was -- I
5 believe it was considered, I don't remember
6 the exact wording, unsafe dwelling. And even
7 though I had been paying diligently even
8 since the fire. So.
9 Q. Did the Town -- the town of who?
10 A. Town of Lansing.
11 Q. Lansing ordered an emergency
12 demolition or just a --
13 A. Correct.
14 Q. Okay. What's the current status of
15 the property?
16 A. They are currently demo'ing it as we
17 speak.
18 Q. The Town is.
19 A. Yep.
20 Q. Okay.
21 A. They had a backhoe, excavators there
22 today.
23 Q. They're going to pay for it?
24 A. No; they are going to charge me the
25 full amount of the demolition plus a 50
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2 percent surcharge on my next tax bill.
3 Q. Okay. And that's on the property at
4 Sperry Lane.
5 A. Correct.
6 Q. What vehicles do you own currently,
7 if any?
8 A. I own a 2008 Chevy Equinox.
9 Q. How long have you owned it?
10 A. I bought it in October of 2008 so
11 11 years, almost.
12 Q. Do you own any other cars in those
13 11 years?
14 A. No.
15 Q. When did you pay it off?
16 A. I do not remember.
17 Q. Was it before the fire?
18 A. Wait, I do remember, it was actually
19 before my -- before I took the original
20 mortgage out. So it was somewhere in 2013
21 before -- before October of 2013.
22 Q. Okay. So you never had a car
23 payment at least with respect to around the
24 time of the fire?
25 A. Correct.
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2 Q. Own any boats?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Own any other watercraft?
5 A. No.
6 Q. All right. The gift your father
7 gave you.
8 MR. GRABER: Mark that, please.
9 (Whereupon, Exhibit-7 was marked.)
10 BY-MR.GRABER:
11 Q. I'm handing you what's been marked
12 Exhibit-7. Can you take a look at that
13 document and tell me what it is?
14 A. It was the $30,000 that my father
15 gifted me for a down payment on my house.
16 Q. How much was it for?
17 A. 30,000.
18 Q. What is the Tompkins Trust Company?
19 A. It is a bank.
20 Q. Is that where your -- is that where
21 the 30K came from?
22 A. Correct.
23 Q. Okay. Do you know if that was out
24 of the Collyers' account?
25 A. No, that was out of his business's
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2 escrow checking.
3 Q. Do you have any other significant
4 assets we haven't gone over?
5 A. No. I don't believe so.
6 Q. Do you have any other sources of
7 income such as a 401(k), pension plan,
8 disability benefits, anything like that?
9 A. Not currently.
10 Q. How about at the time of the fire?
11 A. I believe I have a Roth IRA account
12 open, it might be dormant at this point, I
13 don't -- there may have been a balance but I
14 don't -- I don't remember.
15 Q. Okay.
16 A. But it was minimal. Like a thousand
17 dollars, somewhere around there.
18 Q. You had about a thousand in a Roth.
19 Where was that?
20 A. Through AXA Financial.
21 Q. Who managed it?
22 A. My ex-boyfriend at one point. I
23 don't know who manages it now.
24 Q. Okay. The thousand dollars, you
25 took it out at some point?
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2 A. I -- actually I may have misspoke, I
3 believe it may have been on my 2017 tax
4 return. No, I take it back, it was the
5 '16, that's the -- that was the -- I pulled
6 the amount out, the full amount. So I have
7 a zero balance, from the Exhibit-4.
8 Q. So in 2016 you pulled the thousand
9 out?
10 A. Correct.
11 Q. Why did you do that?
12 A. I needed cash. I wasn't getting
13 paid all the time.
14 Q. What do you remember about that?
15 A. My father was not able to pay me
16 the entire time for my services as an
17 accountant.
18 Q. So help me understand this. Your
19 dad's paying for this really expensive house,
20 but he also can't afford to pay you. What
21 was going on there, was he having money
22 trouble or was he not?
23 A. Yeah, he was. Again, this was
24 during the time when the lawsuit was
25 happening. I'm -- I was not privy to all
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2 of his business transactions. I was an
3 account -- I am an accountant, not -- I
4 don't really handle his checking account.
5 Q. You knew he was having trouble
6 paying you, though, right?
7 A. Yeah.
8 Q. And how far back did that go to?
9 Before 2016?
10 A. I believe it was the end of 2016.
11 Q. Did he ever come to you and say --
12 well, he obviously came to you and said
13 something if he wasn't paying you the full
14 amount, right?
15 A. Correct.
16 Q. What did he say?
17 A. He said he didn't know if he was
18 going to be able to make payroll this week.
19 Q. And what was your response?
20 A. I'm assuming it was something like
21 well, do you know when you will be able to
22 make payroll.
23 Q. And what was his response to that?
24 A. I don't remember, I'm assuming it
25 was I don't know. It was -- that was quite
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2 a few years ago, so.
3 Q. And how long did that type of thing
4 happen where he couldn't pay you after that?
5 A. Before 2016 it hadn't happened.
6 Q. How about after that, at the end of
7 2016?
8 A. It happened often.
9 Q. Okay. Did it ever come to a head
10 where you said I need to get paid?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And what -- talk to me about that
13 conversation.
14 A. He did his best but it didn't always
15 happen.
16 Q. Okay. If you knew he was having
17 trouble meeting payroll, did you ever
18 question where he was getting the money from
19 to pay for the house?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And what did he say?
22 A. He didn't really explain it.
23 Q. Okay. Did you ask why can't you
24 just pay me directly instead of paying for
25 the house?
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2 A. I don't remember particular
3 conversations. I don't remember when things
4 were paid, timewise. I know in 2017 and
5 2018 I was paying people directly and he was
6 not, so.
7 Q. For payroll at your accounting
8 business?
9 A. No, I was paying vendors for my
10 house directly. Sorry. And when I was not
11 getting paid, so the bills would come to me
12 and I would pay them, or I would purchase
13 things directly from Lowe's or Home Depot or
14 whatever.
15 Q. Were you having money issues in
16 early 2018?
17 A. Yeah.
18 Q. Okay. And can you explain that?
19 A. I wasn't getting paid all the time.
20 I was paycheck -- I was making payments
21 paycheck to paycheck. Rang up some credit
22 card debt to make ends meet.
23 Q. Had that been going on since the end
24 of 2016?
25 A. Off and on, yes. I believe so.
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2 Q. Is it still continuing today?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. How much credit card debt would you
5 say you currently have?
6 A. I'm not sure. I want to say -- I'm
7 going through the numbers in my head; I want
8 to say it's around 30,000 but I could be
9 wrong.
10 Q. And then the -- that's just your un
11 -- based on your memory, you don't have
12 documents in front of you, right?
13 A. No.
14 Q. Okay. So how about at the time of
15 the fire? Was it still around 30K?
16 A. I believe it was less than that but
17 I can't -- I can't tell you for certain.
18 Q. Were you doing anything else to get
19 money other than you said racking up credit
20 card debt?
21 A. No.
22 Q. You also lived with your father,
23 right?
24 A. Correct.
25 Q. Okay. Who else lived in that
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2 property?
3 A. My mother lives there. My nephew
4 lives there. Well, he -- I take that back,
5 when he went away to college he moved out.
6 He no longer lives there. He lives primary
7 in Rochester, but in 2000 -- it's 2019 now?
8 Q. Yes.
9 A. So 2000 --
10 Q. On May 15th, 2018 who lived there?
11 A. I believe my nephew may have been in
12 town, but.
13 Q. Who -- how many brothers and sisters
14 do you have?
15 A. I have two sisters and one brother.
16 Q. Okay, and whose nephew?
17 A. My oldest sister, her son, he is 20
18 -- 22.
19 Q. What's his name?
20 A. Xavier LaVigne.
21 Q. X-A-V-I-E-R?
22 A. Correct.
23 Q. And what's your mom's name?
24 A. Tracey, T-R-A-C-E-Y.
25 Q. Has the Collyer lawsuit and financial
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2 issues caused a strain on your parents, are
3 they still together?
4 A. Yes, they're still together.
5 Q. Okay. The monthly payment on the
6 property, that was $1,311.33?
7 A. Currently, yes. No, I take it back,
8 at that -- at that time that was a -- it's
9 changed due to escrow changes, but.
10 Q. And you paid -- that was the amount
11 you paid.
12 A. Correct.
13 Q. You said that there were -- may have
14 been some outstanding taxes on the property.
15 When I talk about the property, it's the one
16 that burned.
17 A. Uh-huh.
18 Q. You paid those off, though, when you
19 bought the property?
20 A. I don't believe I said there were
21 outstanding taxes on there. I said --
22 Q. Okay.
23 A. -- that there was -- that the
24 purchase price may have been taken from prior
25 tax bills, you know, there's the assessment
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2 amount --
3 Q. Okay. Got it.
4 A. -- on there.
5 Q. Got it. To your knowledge were
6 there ever any outstanding taxes on the
7 property?
8 A. I don't believe so.
9 Q. Even currently?
10 A. No.
11 Q. Do you have any loans at the time
12 of the fire other than the loans we talked
13 about today?
14 A. Not besides the two from CFCU.
15 Q. The two; the one, the --
16 A. The mortgage and the HELOC.
17 Q. The utilities on your parents' house,
18 who paid those?
19 A. My parents.
20 Q. Did you pay rent to live there?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Who paid the utilities on the Sperry
23 Lane property?
24 A. I did.
25 Q. What were they?
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2 A. I don't remember off the top of my
3 head. I want to say the electric was less
4 than a hundred dollars a month on average.
5 Q. Was there gas?
6 A. The propane.
7 Q. What was that a month? Around the
8 time of the fire, right before it?
9 A. I don't remember, they would -- they
10 would bill me when they would fill the tank.
11 And it ranged from, I want to say one bill
12 may have been 800, another bill may have
13 been 500, but it was I would get bills two
14 or three times a year whenever they would
15 fill the tank. 'Cause it was based on
16 usage.
17 Q. Got it. It was 5 -- approximately
18 500 to 800 two to three times a year?
19 A. I believe so.
20 Q. Got it. Any other utilities, you
21 said there's electric and propane at the
22 Sperry Lane property?
23 A. I don't believe so.
24 Q. Was the propane shut off at some
25 point?
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2 A. Yes.
3 Q. When was that?
4 A. We turned it off in the beginning of
5 April of 2018. We usually did it in the
6 summers, when we were building, because we
7 did not need heat.
8 Q. So you're saying you shut the
9 propane off in 2017 as well?
10 A. Correct.
11 Q. Did you only build, then, in the
12 summer months, you didn't build in the winter
13 months?
14 A. No, we -- we turned the propane on
15 so that the building would have heat and so
16 it would be -- it would be workable in the
17 winter months and also to keep pipes from
18 freezing and. Oh, I take that back, there
19 was -- there was municipal water as another
20 utility. I forgot that.
21 Q. How much was that a month?
Preview
FILED: TOMPKINS COUNTY CLERK 10/12/2020 11:45 AM INDEX NO. EF2020-0162 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 75 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 10/12/2020 CI2020-14346 Index # : EF2020-0162 EXHIBIT “G” THUMB DRIVE #3 (PART 3 OF 3) FILED: TOMPKINS COUNTY CLERK 10/12/2020 11:45 AM INDEX NO. EF2020-0162 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 75 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 10/12/2020 CI2020-14346 42 Index #: EF2020-0162 1 D. LAVIGNE 2 That's why it had to come down. But it was 3 -- it was close enough. 4 Q. So when you say there was a lot of 5 black mold, you knew you were demolishing it 6 when you bought it. 7 A. Correct. 8 Q. The house wasn't really liveable? 9 A. No. 10 Q. What -- were there any issues other 11 than the black mold? 12 A. There were a lot of things that were 13 not to code in that house. There were 14 multiple heat sources, a coal stove was about 15 six inches from the electrical panel in the 16 basement. You could see where the studs 17 were with the black mold. And if we had to 18 -- if we took the drywall down and tried to 19 remediate the mold, I believe it was studded 20 with two-by-fours, which is not to code, so 21 we would have had to restud the entire house 22 with two-by-sixes. 23 Q. So why'd you get an appraisal on it, 24 wouldn't it -- wouldn't the value be the 25 land plus the cost to demolish it? FILED: TOMPKINS COUNTY CLERK 10/12/2020 11:45 AM INDEX NO. EF2020-0162 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 75 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 10/12/2020 CI2020-14346 43 Index #: EF2020-0162 1 D. LAVIGNE 2 A. I have no idea. 3 Q. Okay. You know, I'm just wondering, 4 you were going to put the offer on the 5 house, you don't know if there was an 6 appraisal. 7 A. Yeah, I -- I'm not a -- I'm not a 8 hundred percent sure. 9 Q. Okay. 10 A. It may have been -- it may have 11 honestly been what the -- what was on the 12 tax bill the prior year, I -- I can't tell 13 you for sure. 14 Q. Okay. The hundred and twenty K 15 mortgage, who was that through? 16 A. CFCU. 17 Q. What is the current balance on the 18 mortgage? 19 A. I believe it's somewhere around a 20 hundred and eight thousand. 21 Q. Are you still paying it? 22 A. No. 23 Q. When did you stop paying it? 24 A. This month, July. 25 Q. And why? FILED: TOMPKINS COUNTY CLERK 10/12/2020 11:45 AM INDEX NO. EF2020-0162 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 75 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 10/12/2020 CI2020-14346 44 Index #: EF2020-0162 1 D. LAVIGNE 2 A. They refused to help me with 3 demolition of the house. Due to the Town's 4 requirement that it be -- it was -- I 5 believe it was considered, I don't remember 6 the exact wording, unsafe dwelling. And even 7 though I had been paying diligently even 8 since the fire. So. 9 Q. Did the Town -- the town of who? 10 A. Town of Lansing. 11 Q. Lansing ordered an emergency 12 demolition or just a -- 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. Okay. What's the current status of 15 the property? 16 A. They are currently demo'ing it as we 17 speak. 18 Q. The Town is. 19 A. Yep. 20 Q. Okay. 21 A. They had a backhoe, excavators there 22 today. 23 Q. They're going to pay for it? 24 A. No; they are going to charge me the 25 full amount of the demolition plus a 50 FILED: TOMPKINS COUNTY CLERK 10/12/2020 11:45 AM INDEX NO. EF2020-0162 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 75 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 10/12/2020 CI2020-14346 45 Index #: EF2020-0162 1 D. LAVIGNE 2 percent surcharge on my next tax bill. 3 Q. Okay. And that's on the property at 4 Sperry Lane. 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. What vehicles do you own currently, 7 if any? 8 A. I own a 2008 Chevy Equinox. 9 Q. How long have you owned it? 10 A. I bought it in October of 2008 so 11 11 years, almost. 12 Q. Do you own any other cars in those 13 11 years? 14 A. No. 15 Q. When did you pay it off? 16 A. I do not remember. 17 Q. Was it before the fire? 18 A. Wait, I do remember, it was actually 19 before my -- before I took the original 20 mortgage out. So it was somewhere in 2013 21 before -- before October of 2013. 22 Q. Okay. So you never had a car 23 payment at least with respect to around the 24 time of the fire? 25 A. Correct. FILED: TOMPKINS COUNTY CLERK 10/12/2020 11:45 AM INDEX NO. EF2020-0162 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 75 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 10/12/2020 CI2020-14346 46 Index #: EF2020-0162 1 D. LAVIGNE 2 Q. Own any boats? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Own any other watercraft? 5 A. No. 6 Q. All right. The gift your father 7 gave you. 8 MR. GRABER: Mark that, please. 9 (Whereupon, Exhibit-7 was marked.) 10 BY-MR.GRABER: 11 Q. I'm handing you what's been marked 12 Exhibit-7. Can you take a look at that 13 document and tell me what it is? 14 A. It was the $30,000 that my father 15 gifted me for a down payment on my house. 16 Q. How much was it for? 17 A. 30,000. 18 Q. What is the Tompkins Trust Company? 19 A. It is a bank. 20 Q. Is that where your -- is that where 21 the 30K came from? 22 A. Correct. 23 Q. Okay. Do you know if that was out 24 of the Collyers' account? 25 A. No, that was out of his business's FILED: TOMPKINS COUNTY CLERK 10/12/2020 11:45 AM INDEX NO. EF2020-0162 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 75 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 10/12/2020 CI2020-14346 47 Index #: EF2020-0162 1 D. LAVIGNE 2 escrow checking. 3 Q. Do you have any other significant 4 assets we haven't gone over? 5 A. No. I don't believe so. 6 Q. Do you have any other sources of 7 income such as a 401(k), pension plan, 8 disability benefits, anything like that? 9 A. Not currently. 10 Q. How about at the time of the fire? 11 A. I believe I have a Roth IRA account 12 open, it might be dormant at this point, I 13 don't -- there may have been a balance but I 14 don't -- I don't remember. 15 Q. Okay. 16 A. But it was minimal. Like a thousand 17 dollars, somewhere around there. 18 Q. You had about a thousand in a Roth. 19 Where was that? 20 A. Through AXA Financial. 21 Q. Who managed it? 22 A. My ex-boyfriend at one point. I 23 don't know who manages it now. 24 Q. Okay. The thousand dollars, you 25 took it out at some point? FILED: TOMPKINS COUNTY CLERK 10/12/2020 11:45 AM INDEX NO. EF2020-0162 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 75 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 10/12/2020 CI2020-14346 48 Index #: EF2020-0162 1 D. LAVIGNE 2 A. I -- actually I may have misspoke, I 3 believe it may have been on my 2017 tax 4 return. No, I take it back, it was the 5 '16, that's the -- that was the -- I pulled 6 the amount out, the full amount. So I have 7 a zero balance, from the Exhibit-4. 8 Q. So in 2016 you pulled the thousand 9 out? 10 A. Correct. 11 Q. Why did you do that? 12 A. I needed cash. I wasn't getting 13 paid all the time. 14 Q. What do you remember about that? 15 A. My father was not able to pay me 16 the entire time for my services as an 17 accountant. 18 Q. So help me understand this. Your 19 dad's paying for this really expensive house, 20 but he also can't afford to pay you. What 21 was going on there, was he having money 22 trouble or was he not? 23 A. Yeah, he was. Again, this was 24 during the time when the lawsuit was 25 happening. I'm -- I was not privy to all FILED: TOMPKINS COUNTY CLERK 10/12/2020 11:45 AM INDEX NO. EF2020-0162 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 75 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 10/12/2020 CI2020-14346 49 Index #: EF2020-0162 1 D. LAVIGNE 2 of his business transactions. I was an 3 account -- I am an accountant, not -- I 4 don't really handle his checking account. 5 Q. You knew he was having trouble 6 paying you, though, right? 7 A. Yeah. 8 Q. And how far back did that go to? 9 Before 2016? 10 A. I believe it was the end of 2016. 11 Q. Did he ever come to you and say -- 12 well, he obviously came to you and said 13 something if he wasn't paying you the full 14 amount, right? 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. What did he say? 17 A. He said he didn't know if he was 18 going to be able to make payroll this week. 19 Q. And what was your response? 20 A. I'm assuming it was something like 21 well, do you know when you will be able to 22 make payroll. 23 Q. And what was his response to that? 24 A. I don't remember, I'm assuming it 25 was I don't know. It was -- that was quite FILED: TOMPKINS COUNTY CLERK 10/12/2020 11:45 AM INDEX NO. EF2020-0162 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 75 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 10/12/2020 CI2020-14346 50 Index #: EF2020-0162 1 D. LAVIGNE 2 a few years ago, so. 3 Q. And how long did that type of thing 4 happen where he couldn't pay you after that? 5 A. Before 2016 it hadn't happened. 6 Q. How about after that, at the end of 7 2016? 8 A. It happened often. 9 Q. Okay. Did it ever come to a head 10 where you said I need to get paid? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And what -- talk to me about that 13 conversation. 14 A. He did his best but it didn't always 15 happen. 16 Q. Okay. If you knew he was having 17 trouble meeting payroll, did you ever 18 question where he was getting the money from 19 to pay for the house? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And what did he say? 22 A. He didn't really explain it. 23 Q. Okay. Did you ask why can't you 24 just pay me directly instead of paying for 25 the house? FILED: TOMPKINS COUNTY CLERK 10/12/2020 11:45 AM INDEX NO. EF2020-0162 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 75 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 10/12/2020 CI2020-14346 51 Index #: EF2020-0162 1 D. LAVIGNE 2 A. I don't remember particular 3 conversations. I don't remember when things 4 were paid, timewise. I know in 2017 and 5 2018 I was paying people directly and he was 6 not, so. 7 Q. For payroll at your accounting 8 business? 9 A. No, I was paying vendors for my 10 house directly. Sorry. And when I was not 11 getting paid, so the bills would come to me 12 and I would pay them, or I would purchase 13 things directly from Lowe's or Home Depot or 14 whatever. 15 Q. Were you having money issues in 16 early 2018? 17 A. Yeah. 18 Q. Okay. And can you explain that? 19 A. I wasn't getting paid all the time. 20 I was paycheck -- I was making payments 21 paycheck to paycheck. Rang up some credit 22 card debt to make ends meet. 23 Q. Had that been going on since the end 24 of 2016? 25 A. Off and on, yes. I believe so. FILED: TOMPKINS COUNTY CLERK 10/12/2020 11:45 AM INDEX NO. EF2020-0162 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 75 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 10/12/2020 CI2020-14346 52 Index #: EF2020-0162 1 D. LAVIGNE 2 Q. Is it still continuing today? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. How much credit card debt would you 5 say you currently have? 6 A. I'm not sure. I want to say -- I'm 7 going through the numbers in my head; I want 8 to say it's around 30,000 but I could be 9 wrong. 10 Q. And then the -- that's just your un 11 -- based on your memory, you don't have 12 documents in front of you, right? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Okay. So how about at the time of 15 the fire? Was it still around 30K? 16 A. I believe it was less than that but 17 I can't -- I can't tell you for certain. 18 Q. Were you doing anything else to get 19 money other than you said racking up credit 20 card debt? 21 A. No. 22 Q. You also lived with your father, 23 right? 24 A. Correct. 25 Q. Okay. Who else lived in that FILED: TOMPKINS COUNTY CLERK 10/12/2020 11:45 AM INDEX NO. EF2020-0162 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 75 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 10/12/2020 CI2020-14346 53 Index #: EF2020-0162 1 D. LAVIGNE 2 property? 3 A. My mother lives there. My nephew 4 lives there. Well, he -- I take that back, 5 when he went away to college he moved out. 6 He no longer lives there. He lives primary 7 in Rochester, but in 2000 -- it's 2019 now? 8 Q. Yes. 9 A. So 2000 -- 10 Q. On May 15th, 2018 who lived there? 11 A. I believe my nephew may have been in 12 town, but. 13 Q. Who -- how many brothers and sisters 14 do you have? 15 A. I have two sisters and one brother. 16 Q. Okay, and whose nephew? 17 A. My oldest sister, her son, he is 20 18 -- 22. 19 Q. What's his name? 20 A. Xavier LaVigne. 21 Q. X-A-V-I-E-R? 22 A. Correct. 23 Q. And what's your mom's name? 24 A. Tracey, T-R-A-C-E-Y. 25 Q. Has the Collyer lawsuit and financial FILED: TOMPKINS COUNTY CLERK 10/12/2020 11:45 AM INDEX NO. EF2020-0162 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 75 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 10/12/2020 CI2020-14346 54 Index #: EF2020-0162 1 D. LAVIGNE 2 issues caused a strain on your parents, are 3 they still together? 4 A. Yes, they're still together. 5 Q. Okay. The monthly payment on the 6 property, that was $1,311.33? 7 A. Currently, yes. No, I take it back, 8 at that -- at that time that was a -- it's 9 changed due to escrow changes, but. 10 Q. And you paid -- that was the amount 11 you paid. 12 A. Correct. 13 Q. You said that there were -- may have 14 been some outstanding taxes on the property. 15 When I talk about the property, it's the one 16 that burned. 17 A. Uh-huh. 18 Q. You paid those off, though, when you 19 bought the property? 20 A. I don't believe I said there were 21 outstanding taxes on there. I said -- 22 Q. Okay. 23 A. -- that there was -- that the 24 purchase price may have been taken from prior 25 tax bills, you know, there's the assessment FILED: TOMPKINS COUNTY CLERK 10/12/2020 11:45 AM INDEX NO. EF2020-0162 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 75 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 10/12/2020 CI2020-14346 55 Index #: EF2020-0162 1 D. LAVIGNE 2 amount -- 3 Q. Okay. Got it. 4 A. -- on there. 5 Q. Got it. To your knowledge were 6 there ever any outstanding taxes on the 7 property? 8 A. I don't believe so. 9 Q. Even currently? 10 A. No. 11 Q. Do you have any loans at the time 12 of the fire other than the loans we talked 13 about today? 14 A. Not besides the two from CFCU. 15 Q. The two; the one, the -- 16 A. The mortgage and the HELOC. 17 Q. The utilities on your parents' house, 18 who paid those? 19 A. My parents. 20 Q. Did you pay rent to live there? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Who paid the utilities on the Sperry 23 Lane property? 24 A. I did. 25 Q. What were they? FILED: TOMPKINS COUNTY CLERK 10/12/2020 11:45 AM INDEX NO. EF2020-0162 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 75 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 10/12/2020 CI2020-14346 56 Index #: EF2020-0162 1 D. LAVIGNE 2 A. I don't remember off the top of my 3 head. I want to say the electric was less 4 than a hundred dollars a month on average. 5 Q. Was there gas? 6 A. The propane. 7 Q. What was that a month? Around the 8 time of the fire, right before it? 9 A. I don't remember, they would -- they 10 would bill me when they would fill the tank. 11 And it ranged from, I want to say one bill 12 may have been 800, another bill may have 13 been 500, but it was I would get bills two 14 or three times a year whenever they would 15 fill the tank. 'Cause it was based on 16 usage. 17 Q. Got it. It was 5 -- approximately 18 500 to 800 two to three times a year? 19 A. I believe so. 20 Q. Got it. Any other utilities, you 21 said there's electric and propane at the 22 Sperry Lane property? 23 A. I don't believe so. 24 Q. Was the propane shut off at some 25 point? FILED: TOMPKINS COUNTY CLERK 10/12/2020 11:45 AM INDEX NO. EF2020-0162 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 75 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 10/12/2020 CI2020-14346 57 Index #: EF2020-0162 1 D. LAVIGNE 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. When was that? 4 A. We turned it off in the beginning of 5 April of 2018. We usually did it in the 6 summers, when we were building, because we 7 did not need heat. 8 Q. So you're saying you shut the 9 propane off in 2017 as well? 10 A. Correct. 11 Q. Did you only build, then, in the 12 summer months, you didn't build in the winter 13 months? 14 A. No, we -- we turned the propane on 15 so that the building would have heat and so 16 it would be -- it would be workable in the 17 winter months and also to keep pipes from 18 freezing and. Oh, I take that back, there 19 was -- there was municipal water as another 20 utility. I forgot that. 21 Q. How much was that a month?