Preview
1 Jordan T. Porter (SBN 250112)
jordan@nshmlaw.com
2 NYE, STIRLING, HALE & MILLER, LLP
33 West Mission Street, Suite 201
3 Santa Barbara, California 93101
Telephone: (805) 963-2345
4 Facsimile: (805) 284-9590
5 Attorney for Plaintiffs THADIAS B. KING and TERRI S.
KING, Individually and as Trustees of The King Family
6 Trust
7
8 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA
9 FOR THE COUNTY OF SANTA BARBARA
10
11 THADIAS B. KING and TERRI S. KING, CASE NO.: 21CV00598
Individually and as Trustees of The King Assigned for all purposes, including trial, to the
12 Family Trust, Hon. Colleen K. Stern, Dept. SB5
NYE, STIRLING, HALE & MILLER
SANTA BARBARA, CALIFORNIA 93101
33 WEST MISSION STREET, SUITE 201
13 Plaintiffs, APPENDIX OF EVIDENCE IN
14 vs. OPPOSITION TO DEFENDANT’S
MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT
15 VOL. I OF II
J.M. SEWALL & ASSOCIATES; JOCK M. [Filed concurrently with Memo of Points and
16 SEWALL; and DOES 1 through 15, inclusive, Authorities; Objections to Defendants’
Evidence; Separate Statement; Decls. of Porter
17 Defendants. and King; and RJN]
18 Date: November 14, 2022
Time: 10:00 a.m.
19 Dept: SB5
20
TRIAL DATE: May 8, 2023
21 Complaint Filed: February 11, 2021
22
23 Plaintiffs THADIAS B. KING and TERRI S. KING, Individually and as Trustees of The
24 King Family Trust, hereby submit this appendix of evidence in opposition to Defendants’ motion
25 for summary judgment, consisting of the following:
26 ///
27 ///
28 ///
1
APPENDIX OF EVIDENCE IN OPPOSITION TO DEFENDANT’S MOTION FOR
SUMMARY JUDGMENT
1 EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION
2 Ex. 1 True and correct copies of excerpts from Sewall’s deposition, along with
Exhibits 1, 3, 4, 8.1, 12, 15, 16, 18, 19, 21, and 23.
3 Ex. 2 True and correct copies of excerpts from Victor Padilla’s April 5, 2022
deposition, along with Exhibits 11, 33, and 34.
4
Ex. 3 True and correct copies of excerpts from Thadias B. King’s April 11, 2022
5 deposition, along with Exhibits 33 and 34.
Ex. 4 A true and correct copy of the subpoena to the Custodian of Records for
6 Santa Barbara County Planning and Development Department, the
Custodian of Records Declaration, and Hofer’s 2010 approved site plan
7 from Santa Barbara County Planning and Development.
Ex. 5 A true and correct copy of Hofer’s October 28, 2010, site plan for the
8
building permit from my box of plans, that I produced in discovery in this
9 matter, bates-stamped KING00823.
Ex. 6 A true and correct copy of California Assembly Bill No. 2299, revising
10 Section 65852.2 of the Government Code, operative January 1, 2017, at
subdivision (a)(1)(E)(vii), second page.
11 Ex. 7 A true and correct copy of the current version of Government Code
section 65852.2 at subdivision (a)(1)(D)(iii) & (vi).
12
NYE, STIRLING, HALE & MILLER
Ex. 8 A true and correct copy of Plaintiffs’ Complaint.
SANTA BARBARA, CALIFORNIA 93101
33 WEST MISSION STREET, SUITE 201
13
14
15 Dated: October 31, 2022 NYE, STIRLING, HALE & MILLER, LLP
16
17 By:
Jordan T. Porter, Esq.
18 Attorneys for Plaintiffs THADIAS B. KING and
TERRI S. KING, Individually and as Trustees of
19 The King Family Trust
20
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25
26
27
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2
APPENDIX OF EVIDENCE IN OPPOSITION TO DEFENDANT’S MOTION FOR
SUMMARY JUDGMENT
EXHIBIT 1
1
1 ***UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT***
2 This unedited rough transcript draft is
3 uncertified and may contain incorrect punctuation,
4 misspelled proper names and/or terminology, an
5 occasional reporter's note, and/or
6 inaccurate/nonsensical word combinations. There WILL
7 BE discrepancies between this form and the final form.
8 Please keep in mind that the final
9 certified transcript's page and line numbers WILL NOT
10 match the rough draft due to the addition and/or
11 editing of title pages, indices, appearances of
12 counsel, paragraphing, formatting, and other changes.
13 Due to the need to correct entries
14 prior to certification, parties agree to use this
15 transcript draft only for the purpose of augmenting
16 counsel's notes and may not be cited or used in any
17 way or at any time to rebut or contradict the
18 certified transcription of the proceedings and should
19 not be distributed in any form to anyone who has no
20 connection to this case.
21
22
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2
1 THE OFFICER: My name is Robin
2 Velasquez. I am the officer assigned by Veritext to
3 take the record of this proceeding. We are now on the
4 record at 10:03 AM.
5 This is the deposition of Jock Sewall
6 taken in the matter of Thadias B King at all versus JM
7 Sewall and Associates at all on Tuesday, October 11th,
8 2022, remote via Zoom. I am a notary authorized to
9 take acknowledgements and administer oaths in
10 California.
11 Parties agree that I will swear in the
12 witness remotely.
13 Additionally, absent an objection on
14 the record before the witness is sworn, all parties
15 and the witness understand and agree that any
16 certified transcript produced from the recording of
17 this proceeding is intended for all uses permitted
18 under applicable, procedural and evidentiary rules and
19 laws in the same manner as a deposition recorded by
20 stenographic means and shall constitute written
21 stipulation of such.
22 At this time, will everyone in
23 attendance please identify yourself for the record.
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18 for continuing legal education every 3rd year.
19 A: Well, you're learning all the time on the
20 job. Let's face.
21 Q: Sure.
22 MR. CHAO: Hey gentlemen, you guys are
23 both starting to get into a sort of a dialogue. Jock,
24 make sure that you give Jordan an opportunity to
25 finish this question and then go ahead and provide the
15
1 answer, okay?
2 A: All Right.
3 Q: Mr. Sewall. Thank you. Now you understand
4 that as a condition of licensure as an architect in
5 California, that architects have to demonstrate a
6 basic level of competence in the provision of
7 professional services, correct?
8 A: Yes.
9 Q: Okay. Can I ask you a little bit about the
10 business form, the J.M Sewall & Associates? Is it
11 still, not that you're retired, do you still have that
12 business?
13 A: No, we closed.
14 Q: And while the business was open, can you
15 tell me what type of a business it was in terms of
16 it's form? For example, I reviewed the discovery
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13 adjustment.
14 Q: Well certainly it meant it. That's certainly
15 you'd agree Mr. Sewall that at least as of January
16 1st, 2016, you could have an ADU garage conversion
17 with a zero lot line setback. Correct?
18 A: That's how it ended up.
19 MR. CHAO: Foundation calls for an
20 expert opinion. You can answer Jock.
21 A: Yeah, I don't know, frankly. I mean it was
22 different every time you went in, they were really --
23 It was quite a free for all with the county at that
24 time.
25 Q: Okay. Now it's possible in 2017 to actually
25
1 obtain a building permit, basically combine the land
2 use permit and building permit process into a single
3 permit. Is that correct?
4 A: Well that's correct.
5 Q: But a disadvantage of doing that if you
6 didn't have the land use permit, the land use permit
7 locked you in with whatever the law said at the time
8 the permit, the land use permit was issued. Correct?
9 A: Well, let's see how -- I'm not sure how to
10 answer that. Frankly. I don't know.
11 Q: Okay. Well for example, in 2017, one of the
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12 Q: Now Mr. Sewall correct that the -- Any
13 building permit issued subsequent to the issuance of
14 the land use permit must largely conform to the
15 project described and depicted in the land use permit.
16 Correct?
17 MR. CHAO: Asked and answered. You can
18 answer Jock.
19 A: Yes.
20 Q: Okay. Now, Mr. Sewall you have a wide screen
21 there in your studio?
22 A: Yes I do.
23 Q: Do. Okay. So I'm going to use a feature
24 called exhibit share, which I understand you don't
25 have it installed in your computer. But what I'll do
27
1 is I'll share my screen of certain exhibits we're
2 going to attach to your deposition. Is that okay?
3 A: Sure.
4 Q: And if you need me to zoom in on any part of
5 them or scroll through it slowly, please let me know
6 and then we'll do that. Okay?
7 Q: All right. So bear with me as I navigate
8 this process please. Okay. So let's see here. I'm
9 going to introduce as exhibit one to your deposition,
10 Mr. Sewall the land use permit to rather long
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11 document, this was obtained by subpoena to Santa
12 Barbara County Planning. It takes a moment for it to
13 upload it through the system and once I have it
14 uploaded, we'll go ahead and introduce it and then
15 I'll screen share it with you. And Mr. Chao, do you
16 have exhibit share open on your end?
17 MR. CHAO: I do.
18 MR. Porter: Okay. Will you let me know
19 when you've received it on your end? It should be on
20 my end. I can now view it.
21 MR. CHAO: I have it on. Thank you.
22 MR. Porter: Okay, great. Okay, so Mr.
23 Sewall, let me try to share my screen here. And can
24 you see that?
25 THE WITNESS: Yeah. Okay. Yes, I can
28
1 now.
2 Q: Okay. Now let me know, is this something
3 that you can read the way it's depicted right now?
4 A: Yes.
5 Q: Okay. And this document is actually 26 pages
6 long. This is the way it came from the county to us.
7 Have you seen this? Have you seen at least its first
8 page before?
9 A: Yes.
10 Q: And this is the land use permit that you
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11 obtained for the King ADU, is that correct?
12 A: I don't know, if you want to run through the
13 pages, I'll let you know.
14 Q: Certainly. Okay. And let's go ahead. You see
15 up here the project name and project address, correct?
16 A: Mm-hmm.
17 Q: And it states King ADU, and 2200 Sycamore
18 Canyon Road, correct?
19 A: Yep.
20 Q: Okay. I'm going to scroll through this
21 slowly, here the second page. Is that your signature
22 there?
23 A: Yes, it is.
24 Q: Okay. And that date is 7/18/17, is that
25 correct?
29
1 A: Mm-hmm.
2 Q: One of the things I forgot to say during the
3 admonitions at the beginning of your deposition is
4 sometimes we say uh-huh or mm-hmm, and it doesn't
5 always translate well in the written transcript, so if
6 that happens, I will ask you, was that a yes? And in
7 doing so, I don't mean to be rude, I'm just trying to
8 clarify the record. Okay?
9 A: That's fine.
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10 Q: Okay. And so, that last answer was a yes. Is
11 that correct?
12 A: Correct.
13 Q: Okay. Do you recognize the other signatures
14 on this page?
15 A: Yes, that's Tammy Weber.
16 Q: I see. Okay. And she signed as the Director
17 of Planning and Development, and as the planner?
18 A: She was the planner at the counter, correct.
19 Q: I see. Okay, great. And then, we have
20 attached to this several pages of conditions of
21 approval. Are these conditions of approval standard
22 for all ADUs? Or were they [** 00:37:10]?
23 A: Yes. They are standard.
24 Q: Thank you. Sorry, I stepped over your answer
25 there.
30
1 A: They're standard. That's correct.
2 Q: Let's see here. This is, it appears to be
3 the Zoning Clearance Application, is that right?
4 A: Yes.
5 Q: Is this your handwriting on this?
6 A: Yes, it is.
7 Q: Okay. This email here, jock@jocksewall.com,
8 is that the email you were using in 2017?
9 A: It was then.
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6 to modify the design to be compatible with any county
7 requirements. That all happens in the working drawing
8 phase.
9 Q: Certainly. Okay. Do you have a recollection
10 though, of bringing an owner set of plans to the Kings
11 for their review and any changes before you take those
12 plans to the county?
13 A: Well, my recollection is Miss and Mr. King
14 provided me with a survey. I asked him, "If you want
15 to save time and money on this project, if you have
16 any existing drawings for work you've already done
17 here, and you've done a lot, those would be help." And
18 then, he provided those to me and then we used that
19 information as he provided for our work.
20 Q: Where did that conversation take place?
21 A: That took place out on his Motor Corps.
22 Q: I see. And he provided you with access to
23 his plans?
24 A: He provided a box of plans that were looked
25 like construction remnants. Really, they were partial
38
1 sets. They were, had been out in the weather. They
2 were not organized, they were not tagged, they were
3 just a collection of old rules of drawing. And he
4 said, "Here's what we have."
5 Q: Now, during this period of time when you
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6 were working on obtaining the land use permit for the
7 King ADU, Mr. King never refused to give you any
8 documents that you asked for, correct?
9 A: No, he encouraged me to take them.
10 Q: And did you take them?
11 A: I took one. I took one sheet. I looked
12 through the box, I found a site plan for a previous
13 edition that had been stamped by the county and
14 approved for construction and built out on his
15 property as it stands now, and rolled it out for him
16 and said, "This looks like it would be what we need."
17 And he said, "Take it away."
18 Q: Okay. Do you have a recollection of going to
19 the Kings for a face-to-face meeting around the time
20 the land use permit was being issued to collect the
21 final bill?
22 A: Let's see. I think we did most by phone at
23 that point. We got the land use permit and I go to
24 drop it off.
25 Q: I see. And do you remember having
39
1 conversation with them about where they raised an
2 issue with your bill?
3 A: Well, I think we had some design revisions
4 at where they developed, he wanted a big skylight in
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3 Q: I see. So in the case of the Kings, for
4 example, would it be accurate to say that once the
5 land use permit was issued by the county and you had
6 that design set of plans with the permit, that any
7 earlier versions of those design drawings, those were
8 discarded at that time?
9 A: I don't know. It depends, that was such a
10 small little project. Maybe we kept some of the
11 earlier drawings that, the Kings were modifying the
12 design on the fly, it was like a glorified garage
13 conversion, so it was not highly -- Now, some
14 projects are quite complex.
15 Q: I see. I'm going to keep scrolling through
16 this document, Mr. Sewall. And then, I'm going to take
17 down the screen share. I shouldn't have left it up
18 this whole time. Here, as we get to the seventh page.
19 This information, this handwriting on this page, is
20 that your handwriting?
21 A: Yes.
22 Q: Okay. And the same here on this eighth page.
23 Is this your handwriting here?
24 A: Yes, it's.
25 Q: And here again, this is your signature?
44
1 A: Yes, it is.
2 Q: And that's here on the page of this exhibit
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3 one, correct?
4 A: Yes.
5 Q: Okay. Then here on the 10th page, and this
6 handwriting, the scope of construction work, property
7 location, name of authorized agent, address of
8 authorized agent, and the phone number. That's all
9 your handwriting, is that correct?
10 A: Yes, it is.
11 Q: All right. We have a, it looks like a
12 duplicate here on page 11, that's your signature and -
13 - Other than Mrs. King's signature here at the
14 landowner, and then at the bottom, this applicant
15 signature, everything else on this page is your
16 handwriting?
17 A: Yes.
18 Q: All right. Again we have a duplicate page.
19 How about this information here on page 13,
20 authorization of agent, this is your handwriting?
21 A: No.
22 Q: Okay. And the same here on page 14. Anything
23 on here? Is this your handwriting?
24 A: No.
25 Q: Okay. And the same question with page 15.
45
1 Does your handwriting appear on this page at all?
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2 A: No, that is their handwriting.
3 Q: Okay. What is the Water Districts
4 Certificate or Water Service Availability. What's the
5 purpose of this?
6 A: Well, that was to get the water service
7 permission and the water -- I think at that time,
8 they were very uptight about providing water to more
9 dwellings. It was sort of like now, they were limiting
10 water meters, and so, you had to get a Water
11 Certificate to validate your project or you couldn't
12 get permit. So that was one of the documents required.
13 Q: I see. And that's something that you
14 obtained for the Kings for their ADU in preparation
15 for the issue. And so, their land use permit in 2017.
16 Correct?
17 A: Correct.
18 Q: Okay. Let me keep scrolling here through
19 pages 17,18. And 19, looks like it's Montecito
20 Sanitary District's sewer availability letter. Is this
21 a document that's part of the -- ?
22 A: That's, no.
23 THE WITNESS: Could we take a little
24 break?
25 MR. Porter: You bet. Yeah, we'll come
46
1 back-
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2 THE WITNESS: How do you want to do
3 that?
4 MR. Porter: Should we take 5, 10
5 minutes?
6 THE WITNESS: Up to you.
7 MR. Porter: Okay, let's [** 01:01:21].
8 MR. CHAO: Let's take 10 minutes,
9 Jordan. We'll come back at 11:15.
10 MR. Porter: Sounds good.
11 THE WITNESS: Thanks.
12 MR. Porter: All right, thank you.
13 THE OFFICER: We're going off the
14 record at 11:04 AM.
15 (WHEREUPON A RECESS WAS TAKEN.)
16 THE OFFICER: We are back on the record
17 at 11:15 AM.
18 BU MR. PORTER
19 Q: All right. Thank you, Mr. Sewall. I'll just
20 remind you, you're still under the same oath that you
21 took at the outset of your deposition today. Okay?
22 A: Okay.
23 Q: Okay. I just want to make sure you're able
24 to hear me. So that's good, thank you. Just want to go
25 back to the exhibit one that we are looking at and get
47
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1 through this. So I'll go ahead and share my screen
2 again.
3 Q: Okay. This is again, is part of the land use
4 permit package that we received from Santa Barbara
5 County Planning in response to the subpoena in this
6 case. What's the purpose of the sewer availability
7 letter?
8 A: It's essentially a Can and Will serve letter
9 for a bathroom in the ADU, kitchen facility.
10 Q: I see. Okay. And this is something that you
11 obtained for the Kings as part of obtaining their land
12 use permit?
13 A: Correct.
14 Q: Okay. And then, we have this proof of
15 posting on, of notice on project site here on the 20th
16 page of this exhibit. That's, this is all your
17 handwriting on this page?
18 A: Correct.
19 Q: Okay. And it looks like you were copied on
20 an email from Dave Stewart to Tammy Weber, and that
21 you forwarded onto to both Tammy Weber and Ms. King.
22 Is that correct?
23 A: Yes.
24 Q: Okay. And it looks like here at this time,
25 and maybe you can help clarify this, it looks like
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50
1 check in to see if Tammy was going to be working the
2 counter on a certain day and then try to show up on
3 that day?
4 A: No way.
5 Q: Okay. And that's the planning counter at the
6 county planning or the engineering-
7 A: 1, 2, 3 and [** 01:06:47].
8 Q: Upstairs?
9 A: Upstairs.
10 Q: Got it. Okay. All right. And then, as we
11 scroll down here, see if I can zoom this out a little
12 bit. Sorry, the size of the file slows everything
13 down. I'm going to take one more out here. Well, maybe
14 we'll be able to move around a little bit within this
15 document. Wait a second there. Can you see that, sir?
16 A: Yes.
17 Q: Okay. Looks like there's three sheets here.
18 Title Sheet, Site Plan Vicinity, Map and Data. Do you
19 see that?
20 A: No. I can see the first one, the other two
21 are hidden from my view.
22 Q: Okay. All right. This is the top sheet. This
23 is, unfortunately at the way, let me see if I can move
24 this. Okay, there we go. This is Sheet A1, correct?
25 A: Yes.
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1 Q: And this is a planning review set. It looks
2 like it has a date of October, I'm sorry, 29 June,
3 2017. Can you make that out there? Let me try to zoom
4 in here. There we go.
5 A: Yes, I see that.
6 Q: Okay. And now, is this a plan that you
7 prepared?
8 A: My office did, yeah.
9 Q: Okay. And when you say your office, is that
10 Stan McCollough who prepared this?
11 A: Correct.
12 Q: And he prepared this based off of a trace
13 from the plan that you took from Mr. King, correct?
14 A: That was the information we used.
15 Q: Got it. Okay. And then, when we get to the
16 second page here, this is, it looks like you have the
17 zoning approval stamp here of August 3rd, 2017. Do you
18 see that?
19 A: Yes.
20 Q: Okay. It says Sheet A2. Let me see here.
21 What would you call this sheet?
22 A: Floor plan. Roof plan.
23 Q: Got it. Okay. And is this design, is this
24 something that you came up with and transmitted or
25 gave a hard copy to Mr. McCollough then did the
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23 A: Correct.
24 Q: And you transmitted these files to the
25 Kings, so that they could use them for the building
58
1 permit drawings, correct?
2 A: No.
3 MR. CHAO: Lack of foundation. Calls
4 for speculation. You can answer Jock, I think you
5 answered.
6 A: No. No.
7 Q: Okay. And why do you say no, Mr. Sewall?
8 A: Because they were for the Kings' records of
9 land use permit, I was not in on the building permit
10 drawings, and the liability there would fall to the
11 owner or the drafting service, that they used. But
12 whenever we provide drawings, we get a hold harmless
13 agreement in return, that the drawings are to be used,
14 design only, and we take no responsibility for their
15 accuracy. And Mr. Padilla never called me. Mr. King
16 never asked for the use to provide those to Padilla
17 and Padilla took my drawings and copied them and
18 reused them without my permission.
19 Q: I see. So your drawings of course, do not
20 have any warning that they cannot be used without your
21 permission. Correct?
22 A: It's standard for the profession.
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21 construction. But she took over all the texting, while
22 Mr. King disappear. And so, that's what that's all
23 about. But where did the story come from, all of those
24 questions are very elementary. And Mr. King, of
25 course, be on top of that, but he somehow went into
116
1 hiding on that.
2 Q: So, you agree that this is communications
3 between you and Mrs. King, correct?
4 A: This is Mrs. King. She always stayed in it,
5 and even while Mr. King was telling me to get lost.
6 So, it was a little odd. And she was calling the
7 county too.
8 Q: When you're talking about this site plan
9 here, you're talking about the architect, Brian
10 Hofer's site plan that you used, correct?
11 A: Correct.
12 Q: And you didn't obtain any permission from
13 Brian Hofer to use that site plan, correct?
14 A: No. Hofer had used a previous survey on a
15 previous permit for that property, from Ketzel. He had
16 just copied it.
17 Q: So my question though for you, Mr. Sewall,
18 is you did not obtain permission from Brian Hofer?
19 A: No. The same information that was provided
20 to me by the owner, and had been used on a previous
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21 plan from Hofer, who had obviously cocked it. So,
22 there was no reason to contact Hofer.
23 Q: I see. And you have an understanding, are
24 you aware that the plan you're using for Mr. Hofer
25 wore his stamp, correct?
117
1 A: Yeah. And the county's permit stamp, and the
2 owner gave it to me to use.
3 Q: And you understood that Mr. Hofer's plan
4 explicitly said, it could not be used without his
5 permission for any purpose? Correct?
6 A: He had already used it from a previous set
7 of plans, so it wasn't original with him.
8 Q: Well, I understand that's what you're saying
9 now, sir. But at the time that you traced Mr. Hofer's
10 plan, you didn't obtain his permission to do so,
11 correct?
12 A: Correct.
13 MR. CHAO: Lacks foundation, calls for
14 speculation. You got his answer.
15 Q: And in fact, Mr. Sewall, you didn't obtain a
16 hold harmless agreement from Mr. Hofer, correct?
17 A: No.
18 Q: So, you conclude this part of the message
19 saying sent, "Let's get the facts and go from there.
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20 Prober's survey should tell us something. Please send
21 so we can meet. Best, Jock Sewall." You see that?
22 A: Yes, I do.
23 Q: And then, Ms. King replies, "Sent Thadius
24 said -- " On September 24th, correct?
25 A: "Sent Thadius said," I'm not sure what that
118
1 means.
2 Q: Well, this communication, you agree, is
3 taking place in the evening on September 24th, 2018?
4 Correct? And if we go back to exhibit five here --
5 Oops, bear with me here. We have your letter sent the
6 following day to the Kings, on September 25th. "We
7 acknowledge that they provided you with the Prober
8 survey," correct?
9 A: Yes.
10 Q: Remark is next in order, exhibit eight. I'm
11 going to go ahead and share the screen. And Mr.
12 Sewall, can you see this document?
13 A: Yes.
14 Q: I'll try to zoom in here a little bit if I
15 can. That's about the farthest I can go. Is this the
16 Hofer plan that you used?
17 A: No.
18 Q: And why do you say that?
19 A: The one I used was had a lot of stamps on it
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19 you used. If you can give us about 10 minutes. Would
20 that be okay?
21 THE WITNESS: Up to you.
22 MR. Porter: Mr. Chao?
23 MR. CHAO: Tell me when it's back,
24 Jordan.
25 MR. Porter: Yeah, let's come back just
120
1 at two.
2 THE OFFICER: We're going off the
3 record at 1:51 PM.
4 (WHEREUPON A RECESS WAS TAKEN.)
5 THE OFFICER: We are back on the record
6 at 2:04 PM. Please go ahead.
7 BY MR. PORTER
8 Q: Thank you, Madam Court Reporter. Mr. Sewall,
9 I'll remind you after our short break, you remain
10 under the same oath you took this morning at the
11 outset of your deposition?
12 A: Yes.
13 Q: All right. I'm going to mark, as -- I call
14 it exhibit 8.1. And we'll take a look at this in just
15 a moment. I'm going to share the screen with you, Mr.
16 Sewall. Let me zoom in on this. This is a document
17 that was produced by your counsel in discovery. Here,
18 let me see if I have -- Oh, let me stop sharing for a
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19 one, because I think the bate stamp covered the --
20 Let's see here. Oh, this is bate stamp JMS00091.
21 There's a very tiny bate stamp over here in this right
22 hand corner. Is this the Hofer plan that you relied
23 upon?
24 A: Yes.
25 Q: And so, we have an approval from County of
121
1 Santa Barbara that's been interlineated. Do you see
2 that?
3 A: Yes.
4 Q: And a zoning approval that's been
5 interlineated. Do you see that?
6 A: Yes.
7 Q: And the job copy of the plans, that's also
8 been crossed out. You see that?
9 A: Huh?
10 Q: And so, this plan though, has the zoning
11 approval on February 21st, 2008. Do you see that
12 stamp?
13 A: Uh-huh.
14 Q: And just to confirm, this is the copy that
15 you used to make the site plan for the LUP?
16 A: Yes.
17 Q: Mr. Sewall, as a licensed architect in
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18 California, you're prohibited from infringing upon the
19 works of other architects, correct?
20 A: Yes.
21 Q: Okay. And in fact, as a licensed architect
22 in California, you're not allowed to use another
23 architect's instruments of service without the consent
24 of the architect in a written contract, a written
25 agreement, or a written license specifically
122
1 authorizing the use. Correct?
2 A: What kind of work are you referring to?
3 Q: I'm talking about any, any instrument of
4 service.
5 A: Well, if an owner provides me with a
6 document, I am allowed to use that.
7 Q: Okay. What's the basis for that statement,
8 sir?
9 A: An attorney told me that they're --
10 Q: Oh, and let me hold, let me stop you right
11 there. If it's, I don't want you to reveal any
12 conversations you've had with Mr. Chao.
13 A: Okay. It was Mr. Chao.
14 Q: Okay. And so I don't know, Mr. Chao, if you
15 want to give an instruction or not here. Let me ask
16 you this, Mr. Sewall, is it an attorney that you were
17 having a friendly conversation with or an attorney
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13 statutes and regulations adopted by the California
14 Architects Board, and your understanding the way that
15 board defines professional services for architects.
16 A: Yeah, I don't know. We're sort of getting
17 into the weeds here, pal. You got to be more specific.
18 Q: Okay. Well, what would the term
19 investigation mean to you in 2017 as it relates to an
20 architect's professional services?
21 MR. CHAO: [** 03:08:44] you can answer
22 though.
23 A: Investigation of, for undertaking a project?
24 Q: Okay.
25 A: Is that what you're asking?
132
1 Q: I'm one. I'm just curious what, I'm looking
2 to find out, Mr. Sewall, what your understanding of
3 what the phrase or the term investigation means as
4 used by the California Architects Board when
5 describing an architect's professional services?
6 A: Well, let's see. It would be investigating
7 code requirements for an ADU. It would be
8 investigating existing site conditions regarding the
9 ADU, using owner supplied information would certainly
10 be a proper procedure on a permitted set of drawings,
11 and providing billing information if they had any
12 concerns about that. So, investigation would be
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13 familiarity with the permitting process and obtaining
14 the permit through the county process scenes and
15 planners. So, yes, I would consider that
16 investigation. I would not consider investigation when
17 the owner provides information to me, you have to
18 start back and undertake a complete review and
19 research of an existing planner.
20 Q: Hmm, do you understand that an architect's
21 professional services as described by the California
22 Architects boards includes designs?
23 A: Sure.
24 Q: Okay. How about, do you have an
25 understanding that an architects professional services
133
1 defined by the California Architects Board includes an
2 evaluation of the project?
3 A: Evaluation? I'm not sure what you mean. What
4 kind of evaluation?
5 Q: What is your understanding of the word
6 evaluation as it relates to the California Architects
7 Board's use of that word?
8 A: Evaluation Of the clients? Evaluation of the
9 project?
10 Q: Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Let me
11 finish spitting it out before you start answering.
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12 A: Oh, okay.
13 Q: What's your understanding of the word
14 "evaluation" as used by the California Architects
15 Board when describing professional services?
16 MR. CHAO: Vague and ambiguous, lacks
17 foundation, overly broad in scope and time. You can
18 answer, talk to the extent you understand this
19 question.
20 A: I don't understand the question. Evaluation
21 is sort of a big part of everybody's life.
22 Q: Rig
Preview
1 Jordan T. Porter (SBN 250112) jordan@nshmlaw.com 2 NYE, STIRLING, HALE & MILLER, LLP 33 West Mission Street, Suite 201 3 Santa Barbara, California 93101 Telephone: (805) 963-2345 4 Facsimile: (805) 284-9590 5 Attorney for Plaintiffs THADIAS B. KING and TERRI S. KING, Individually and as Trustees of The King Family 6 Trust 7 8 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 9 FOR THE COUNTY OF SANTA BARBARA 10 11 THADIAS B. KING and TERRI S. KING, CASE NO.: 21CV00598 Individually and as Trustees of The King Assigned for all purposes, including trial, to the 12 Family Trust, Hon. Colleen K. Stern, Dept. SB5 NYE, STIRLING, HALE & MILLER SANTA BARBARA, CALIFORNIA 93101 33 WEST MISSION STREET, SUITE 201 13 Plaintiffs, APPENDIX OF EVIDENCE IN 14 vs. OPPOSITION TO DEFENDANT’S MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT 15 VOL. I OF II J.M. SEWALL & ASSOCIATES; JOCK M. [Filed concurrently with Memo of Points and 16 SEWALL; and DOES 1 through 15, inclusive, Authorities; Objections to Defendants’ Evidence; Separate Statement; Decls. of Porter 17 Defendants. and King; and RJN] 18 Date: November 14, 2022 Time: 10:00 a.m. 19 Dept: SB5 20 TRIAL DATE: May 8, 2023 21 Complaint Filed: February 11, 2021 22 23 Plaintiffs THADIAS B. KING and TERRI S. KING, Individually and as Trustees of The 24 King Family Trust, hereby submit this appendix of evidence in opposition to Defendants’ motion 25 for summary judgment, consisting of the following: 26 /// 27 /// 28 /// 1 APPENDIX OF EVIDENCE IN OPPOSITION TO DEFENDANT’S MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT 1 EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION 2 Ex. 1 True and correct copies of excerpts from Sewall’s deposition, along with Exhibits 1, 3, 4, 8.1, 12, 15, 16, 18, 19, 21, and 23. 3 Ex. 2 True and correct copies of excerpts from Victor Padilla’s April 5, 2022 deposition, along with Exhibits 11, 33, and 34. 4 Ex. 3 True and correct copies of excerpts from Thadias B. King’s April 11, 2022 5 deposition, along with Exhibits 33 and 34. Ex. 4 A true and correct copy of the subpoena to the Custodian of Records for 6 Santa Barbara County Planning and Development Department, the Custodian of Records Declaration, and Hofer’s 2010 approved site plan 7 from Santa Barbara County Planning and Development. Ex. 5 A true and correct copy of Hofer’s October 28, 2010, site plan for the 8 building permit from my box of plans, that I produced in discovery in this 9 matter, bates-stamped KING00823. Ex. 6 A true and correct copy of California Assembly Bill No. 2299, revising 10 Section 65852.2 of the Government Code, operative January 1, 2017, at subdivision (a)(1)(E)(vii), second page. 11 Ex. 7 A true and correct copy of the current version of Government Code section 65852.2 at subdivision (a)(1)(D)(iii) & (vi). 12 NYE, STIRLING, HALE & MILLER Ex. 8 A true and correct copy of Plaintiffs’ Complaint. SANTA BARBARA, CALIFORNIA 93101 33 WEST MISSION STREET, SUITE 201 13 14 15 Dated: October 31, 2022 NYE, STIRLING, HALE & MILLER, LLP 16 17 By: Jordan T. Porter, Esq. 18 Attorneys for Plaintiffs THADIAS B. KING and TERRI S. KING, Individually and as Trustees of 19 The King Family Trust 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 2 APPENDIX OF EVIDENCE IN OPPOSITION TO DEFENDANT’S MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT EXHIBIT 1 1 1 ***UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT*** 2 This unedited rough transcript draft is 3 uncertified and may contain incorrect punctuation, 4 misspelled proper names and/or terminology, an 5 occasional reporter's note, and/or 6 inaccurate/nonsensical word combinations. There WILL 7 BE discrepancies between this form and the final form. 8 Please keep in mind that the final 9 certified transcript's page and line numbers WILL NOT 10 match the rough draft due to the addition and/or 11 editing of title pages, indices, appearances of 12 counsel, paragraphing, formatting, and other changes. 13 Due to the need to correct entries 14 prior to certification, parties agree to use this 15 transcript draft only for the purpose of augmenting 16 counsel's notes and may not be cited or used in any 17 way or at any time to rebut or contradict the 18 certified transcription of the proceedings and should 19 not be distributed in any form to anyone who has no 20 connection to this case. 21 22 23 file:///F/CASES3-PTF/KING/Discovery/Depo/Transcripts/Sewall,%20Jock%2010.11.22/JockSewall_Rough.txt[10/24/2022 1:16:15 PM] 24 25 2 1 THE OFFICER: My name is Robin 2 Velasquez. I am the officer assigned by Veritext to 3 take the record of this proceeding. We are now on the 4 record at 10:03 AM. 5 This is the deposition of Jock Sewall 6 taken in the matter of Thadias B King at all versus JM 7 Sewall and Associates at all on Tuesday, October 11th, 8 2022, remote via Zoom. I am a notary authorized to 9 take acknowledgements and administer oaths in 10 California. 11 Parties agree that I will swear in the 12 witness remotely. 13 Additionally, absent an objection on 14 the record before the witness is sworn, all parties 15 and the witness understand and agree that any 16 certified transcript produced from the recording of 17 this proceeding is intended for all uses permitted 18 under applicable, procedural and evidentiary rules and 19 laws in the same manner as a deposition recorded by 20 stenographic means and shall constitute written 21 stipulation of such. 22 At this time, will everyone in 23 attendance please identify yourself for the record. file:///F/CASES3-PTF/KING/Discovery/Depo/Transcripts/Sewall,%20Jock%2010.11.22/JockSewall_Rough.txt[10/24/2022 1:16:15 PM] 18 for continuing legal education every 3rd year. 19 A: Well, you're learning all the time on the 20 job. Let's face. 21 Q: Sure. 22 MR. CHAO: Hey gentlemen, you guys are 23 both starting to get into a sort of a dialogue. Jock, 24 make sure that you give Jordan an opportunity to 25 finish this question and then go ahead and provide the 15 1 answer, okay? 2 A: All Right. 3 Q: Mr. Sewall. Thank you. Now you understand 4 that as a condition of licensure as an architect in 5 California, that architects have to demonstrate a 6 basic level of competence in the provision of 7 professional services, correct? 8 A: Yes. 9 Q: Okay. Can I ask you a little bit about the 10 business form, the J.M Sewall & Associates? Is it 11 still, not that you're retired, do you still have that 12 business? 13 A: No, we closed. 14 Q: And while the business was open, can you 15 tell me what type of a business it was in terms of 16 it's form? For example, I reviewed the discovery file:///F/CASES3-PTF/KING/Discovery/Depo/Transcripts/Sewall,%20Jock%2010.11.22/JockSewall_Rough.txt[10/24/2022 1:16:15 PM] 13 adjustment. 14 Q: Well certainly it meant it. That's certainly 15 you'd agree Mr. Sewall that at least as of January 16 1st, 2016, you could have an ADU garage conversion 17 with a zero lot line setback. Correct? 18 A: That's how it ended up. 19 MR. CHAO: Foundation calls for an 20 expert opinion. You can answer Jock. 21 A: Yeah, I don't know, frankly. I mean it was 22 different every time you went in, they were really -- 23 It was quite a free for all with the county at that 24 time. 25 Q: Okay. Now it's possible in 2017 to actually 25 1 obtain a building permit, basically combine the land 2 use permit and building permit process into a single 3 permit. Is that correct? 4 A: Well that's correct. 5 Q: But a disadvantage of doing that if you 6 didn't have the land use permit, the land use permit 7 locked you in with whatever the law said at the time 8 the permit, the land use permit was issued. Correct? 9 A: Well, let's see how -- I'm not sure how to 10 answer that. Frankly. I don't know. 11 Q: Okay. Well for example, in 2017, one of the file:///F/CASES3-PTF/KING/Discovery/Depo/Transcripts/Sewall,%20Jock%2010.11.22/JockSewall_Rough.txt[10/24/2022 1:16:15 PM] 12 Q: Now Mr. Sewall correct that the -- Any 13 building permit issued subsequent to the issuance of 14 the land use permit must largely conform to the 15 project described and depicted in the land use permit. 16 Correct? 17 MR. CHAO: Asked and answered. You can 18 answer Jock. 19 A: Yes. 20 Q: Okay. Now, Mr. Sewall you have a wide screen 21 there in your studio? 22 A: Yes I do. 23 Q: Do. Okay. So I'm going to use a feature 24 called exhibit share, which I understand you don't 25 have it installed in your computer. But what I'll do 27 1 is I'll share my screen of certain exhibits we're 2 going to attach to your deposition. Is that okay? 3 A: Sure. 4 Q: And if you need me to zoom in on any part of 5 them or scroll through it slowly, please let me know 6 and then we'll do that. Okay? 7 Q: All right. So bear with me as I navigate 8 this process please. Okay. So let's see here. I'm 9 going to introduce as exhibit one to your deposition, 10 Mr. Sewall the land use permit to rather long file:///F/CASES3-PTF/KING/Discovery/Depo/Transcripts/Sewall,%20Jock%2010.11.22/JockSewall_Rough.txt[10/24/2022 1:16:15 PM] 11 document, this was obtained by subpoena to Santa 12 Barbara County Planning. It takes a moment for it to 13 upload it through the system and once I have it 14 uploaded, we'll go ahead and introduce it and then 15 I'll screen share it with you. And Mr. Chao, do you 16 have exhibit share open on your end? 17 MR. CHAO: I do. 18 MR. Porter: Okay. Will you let me know 19 when you've received it on your end? It should be on 20 my end. I can now view it. 21 MR. CHAO: I have it on. Thank you. 22 MR. Porter: Okay, great. Okay, so Mr. 23 Sewall, let me try to share my screen here. And can 24 you see that? 25 THE WITNESS: Yeah. Okay. Yes, I can 28 1 now. 2 Q: Okay. Now let me know, is this something 3 that you can read the way it's depicted right now? 4 A: Yes. 5 Q: Okay. And this document is actually 26 pages 6 long. This is the way it came from the county to us. 7 Have you seen this? Have you seen at least its first 8 page before? 9 A: Yes. 10 Q: And this is the land use permit that you file:///F/CASES3-PTF/KING/Discovery/Depo/Transcripts/Sewall,%20Jock%2010.11.22/JockSewall_Rough.txt[10/24/2022 1:16:15 PM] 11 obtained for the King ADU, is that correct? 12 A: I don't know, if you want to run through the 13 pages, I'll let you know. 14 Q: Certainly. Okay. And let's go ahead. You see 15 up here the project name and project address, correct? 16 A: Mm-hmm. 17 Q: And it states King ADU, and 2200 Sycamore 18 Canyon Road, correct? 19 A: Yep. 20 Q: Okay. I'm going to scroll through this 21 slowly, here the second page. Is that your signature 22 there? 23 A: Yes, it is. 24 Q: Okay. And that date is 7/18/17, is that 25 correct? 29 1 A: Mm-hmm. 2 Q: One of the things I forgot to say during the 3 admonitions at the beginning of your deposition is 4 sometimes we say uh-huh or mm-hmm, and it doesn't 5 always translate well in the written transcript, so if 6 that happens, I will ask you, was that a yes? And in 7 doing so, I don't mean to be rude, I'm just trying to 8 clarify the record. Okay? 9 A: That's fine. file:///F/CASES3-PTF/KING/Discovery/Depo/Transcripts/Sewall,%20Jock%2010.11.22/JockSewall_Rough.txt[10/24/2022 1:16:15 PM] 10 Q: Okay. And so, that last answer was a yes. Is 11 that correct? 12 A: Correct. 13 Q: Okay. Do you recognize the other signatures 14 on this page? 15 A: Yes, that's Tammy Weber. 16 Q: I see. Okay. And she signed as the Director 17 of Planning and Development, and as the planner? 18 A: She was the planner at the counter, correct. 19 Q: I see. Okay, great. And then, we have 20 attached to this several pages of conditions of 21 approval. Are these conditions of approval standard 22 for all ADUs? Or were they [** 00:37:10]? 23 A: Yes. They are standard. 24 Q: Thank you. Sorry, I stepped over your answer 25 there. 30 1 A: They're standard. That's correct. 2 Q: Let's see here. This is, it appears to be 3 the Zoning Clearance Application, is that right? 4 A: Yes. 5 Q: Is this your handwriting on this? 6 A: Yes, it is. 7 Q: Okay. This email here, jock@jocksewall.com, 8 is that the email you were using in 2017? 9 A: It was then. file:///F/CASES3-PTF/KING/Discovery/Depo/Transcripts/Sewall,%20Jock%2010.11.22/JockSewall_Rough.txt[10/24/2022 1:16:15 PM] 6 to modify the design to be compatible with any county 7 requirements. That all happens in the working drawing 8 phase. 9 Q: Certainly. Okay. Do you have a recollection 10 though, of bringing an owner set of plans to the Kings 11 for their review and any changes before you take those 12 plans to the county? 13 A: Well, my recollection is Miss and Mr. King 14 provided me with a survey. I asked him, "If you want 15 to save time and money on this project, if you have 16 any existing drawings for work you've already done 17 here, and you've done a lot, those would be help." And 18 then, he provided those to me and then we used that 19 information as he provided for our work. 20 Q: Where did that conversation take place? 21 A: That took place out on his Motor Corps. 22 Q: I see. And he provided you with access to 23 his plans? 24 A: He provided a box of plans that were looked 25 like construction remnants. Really, they were partial 38 1 sets. They were, had been out in the weather. They 2 were not organized, they were not tagged, they were 3 just a collection of old rules of drawing. And he 4 said, "Here's what we have." 5 Q: Now, during this period of time when you file:///F/CASES3-PTF/KING/Discovery/Depo/Transcripts/Sewall,%20Jock%2010.11.22/JockSewall_Rough.txt[10/24/2022 1:16:15 PM] 6 were working on obtaining the land use permit for the 7 King ADU, Mr. King never refused to give you any 8 documents that you asked for, correct? 9 A: No, he encouraged me to take them. 10 Q: And did you take them? 11 A: I took one. I took one sheet. I looked 12 through the box, I found a site plan for a previous 13 edition that had been stamped by the county and 14 approved for construction and built out on his 15 property as it stands now, and rolled it out for him 16 and said, "This looks like it would be what we need." 17 And he said, "Take it away." 18 Q: Okay. Do you have a recollection of going to 19 the Kings for a face-to-face meeting around the time 20 the land use permit was being issued to collect the 21 final bill? 22 A: Let's see. I think we did most by phone at 23 that point. We got the land use permit and I go to 24 drop it off. 25 Q: I see. And do you remember having 39 1 conversation with them about where they raised an 2 issue with your bill? 3 A: Well, I think we had some design revisions 4 at where they developed, he wanted a big skylight in file:///F/CASES3-PTF/KING/Discovery/Depo/Transcripts/Sewall,%20Jock%2010.11.22/JockSewall_Rough.txt[10/24/2022 1:16:15 PM] 3 Q: I see. So in the case of the Kings, for 4 example, would it be accurate to say that once the 5 land use permit was issued by the county and you had 6 that design set of plans with the permit, that any 7 earlier versions of those design drawings, those were 8 discarded at that time? 9 A: I don't know. It depends, that was such a 10 small little project. Maybe we kept some of the 11 earlier drawings that, the Kings were modifying the 12 design on the fly, it was like a glorified garage 13 conversion, so it was not highly -- Now, some 14 projects are quite complex. 15 Q: I see. I'm going to keep scrolling through 16 this document, Mr. Sewall. And then, I'm going to take 17 down the screen share. I shouldn't have left it up 18 this whole time. Here, as we get to the seventh page. 19 This information, this handwriting on this page, is 20 that your handwriting? 21 A: Yes. 22 Q: Okay. And the same here on this eighth page. 23 Is this your handwriting here? 24 A: Yes, it's. 25 Q: And here again, this is your signature? 44 1 A: Yes, it is. 2 Q: And that's here on the page of this exhibit file:///F/CASES3-PTF/KING/Discovery/Depo/Transcripts/Sewall,%20Jock%2010.11.22/JockSewall_Rough.txt[10/24/2022 1:16:15 PM] 3 one, correct? 4 A: Yes. 5 Q: Okay. Then here on the 10th page, and this 6 handwriting, the scope of construction work, property 7 location, name of authorized agent, address of 8 authorized agent, and the phone number. That's all 9 your handwriting, is that correct? 10 A: Yes, it is. 11 Q: All right. We have a, it looks like a 12 duplicate here on page 11, that's your signature and - 13 - Other than Mrs. King's signature here at the 14 landowner, and then at the bottom, this applicant 15 signature, everything else on this page is your 16 handwriting? 17 A: Yes. 18 Q: All right. Again we have a duplicate page. 19 How about this information here on page 13, 20 authorization of agent, this is your handwriting? 21 A: No. 22 Q: Okay. And the same here on page 14. Anything 23 on here? Is this your handwriting? 24 A: No. 25 Q: Okay. And the same question with page 15. 45 1 Does your handwriting appear on this page at all? file:///F/CASES3-PTF/KING/Discovery/Depo/Transcripts/Sewall,%20Jock%2010.11.22/JockSewall_Rough.txt[10/24/2022 1:16:15 PM] 2 A: No, that is their handwriting. 3 Q: Okay. What is the Water Districts 4 Certificate or Water Service Availability. What's the 5 purpose of this? 6 A: Well, that was to get the water service 7 permission and the water -- I think at that time, 8 they were very uptight about providing water to more 9 dwellings. It was sort of like now, they were limiting 10 water meters, and so, you had to get a Water 11 Certificate to validate your project or you couldn't 12 get permit. So that was one of the documents required. 13 Q: I see. And that's something that you 14 obtained for the Kings for their ADU in preparation 15 for the issue. And so, their land use permit in 2017. 16 Correct? 17 A: Correct. 18 Q: Okay. Let me keep scrolling here through 19 pages 17,18. And 19, looks like it's Montecito 20 Sanitary District's sewer availability letter. Is this 21 a document that's part of the -- ? 22 A: That's, no. 23 THE WITNESS: Could we take a little 24 break? 25 MR. Porter: You bet. Yeah, we'll come 46 1 back- file:///F/CASES3-PTF/KING/Discovery/Depo/Transcripts/Sewall,%20Jock%2010.11.22/JockSewall_Rough.txt[10/24/2022 1:16:15 PM] 2 THE WITNESS: How do you want to do 3 that? 4 MR. Porter: Should we take 5, 10 5 minutes? 6 THE WITNESS: Up to you. 7 MR. Porter: Okay, let's [** 01:01:21]. 8 MR. CHAO: Let's take 10 minutes, 9 Jordan. We'll come back at 11:15. 10 MR. Porter: Sounds good. 11 THE WITNESS: Thanks. 12 MR. Porter: All right, thank you. 13 THE OFFICER: We're going off the 14 record at 11:04 AM. 15 (WHEREUPON A RECESS WAS TAKEN.) 16 THE OFFICER: We are back on the record 17 at 11:15 AM. 18 BU MR. PORTER 19 Q: All right. Thank you, Mr. Sewall. I'll just 20 remind you, you're still under the same oath that you 21 took at the outset of your deposition today. Okay? 22 A: Okay. 23 Q: Okay. I just want to make sure you're able 24 to hear me. So that's good, thank you. Just want to go 25 back to the exhibit one that we are looking at and get 47 file:///F/CASES3-PTF/KING/Discovery/Depo/Transcripts/Sewall,%20Jock%2010.11.22/JockSewall_Rough.txt[10/24/2022 1:16:15 PM] 1 through this. So I'll go ahead and share my screen 2 again. 3 Q: Okay. This is again, is part of the land use 4 permit package that we received from Santa Barbara 5 County Planning in response to the subpoena in this 6 case. What's the purpose of the sewer availability 7 letter? 8 A: It's essentially a Can and Will serve letter 9 for a bathroom in the ADU, kitchen facility. 10 Q: I see. Okay. And this is something that you 11 obtained for the Kings as part of obtaining their land 12 use permit? 13 A: Correct. 14 Q: Okay. And then, we have this proof of 15 posting on, of notice on project site here on the 20th 16 page of this exhibit. That's, this is all your 17 handwriting on this page? 18 A: Correct. 19 Q: Okay. And it looks like you were copied on 20 an email from Dave Stewart to Tammy Weber, and that 21 you forwarded onto to both Tammy Weber and Ms. King. 22 Is that correct? 23 A: Yes. 24 Q: Okay. And it looks like here at this time, 25 and maybe you can help clarify this, it looks like 48 file:///F/CASES3-PTF/KING/Discovery/Depo/Transcripts/Sewall,%20Jock%2010.11.22/JockSewall_Rough.txt[10/24/2022 1:16:15 PM] 50 1 check in to see if Tammy was going to be working the 2 counter on a certain day and then try to show up on 3 that day? 4 A: No way. 5 Q: Okay. And that's the planning counter at the 6 county planning or the engineering- 7 A: 1, 2, 3 and [** 01:06:47]. 8 Q: Upstairs? 9 A: Upstairs. 10 Q: Got it. Okay. All right. And then, as we 11 scroll down here, see if I can zoom this out a little 12 bit. Sorry, the size of the file slows everything 13 down. I'm going to take one more out here. Well, maybe 14 we'll be able to move around a little bit within this 15 document. Wait a second there. Can you see that, sir? 16 A: Yes. 17 Q: Okay. Looks like there's three sheets here. 18 Title Sheet, Site Plan Vicinity, Map and Data. Do you 19 see that? 20 A: No. I can see the first one, the other two 21 are hidden from my view. 22 Q: Okay. All right. This is the top sheet. This 23 is, unfortunately at the way, let me see if I can move 24 this. Okay, there we go. This is Sheet A1, correct? 25 A: Yes. file:///F/CASES3-PTF/KING/Discovery/Depo/Transcripts/Sewall,%20Jock%2010.11.22/JockSewall_Rough.txt[10/24/2022 1:16:15 PM] 51 1 Q: And this is a planning review set. It looks 2 like it has a date of October, I'm sorry, 29 June, 3 2017. Can you make that out there? Let me try to zoom 4 in here. There we go. 5 A: Yes, I see that. 6 Q: Okay. And now, is this a plan that you 7 prepared? 8 A: My office did, yeah. 9 Q: Okay. And when you say your office, is that 10 Stan McCollough who prepared this? 11 A: Correct. 12 Q: And he prepared this based off of a trace 13 from the plan that you took from Mr. King, correct? 14 A: That was the information we used. 15 Q: Got it. Okay. And then, when we get to the 16 second page here, this is, it looks like you have the 17 zoning approval stamp here of August 3rd, 2017. Do you 18 see that? 19 A: Yes. 20 Q: Okay. It says Sheet A2. Let me see here. 21 What would you call this sheet? 22 A: Floor plan. Roof plan. 23 Q: Got it. Okay. And is this design, is this 24 something that you came up with and transmitted or 25 gave a hard copy to Mr. McCollough then did the file:///F/CASES3-PTF/KING/Discovery/Depo/Transcripts/Sewall,%20Jock%2010.11.22/JockSewall_Rough.txt[10/24/2022 1:16:15 PM] 23 A: Correct. 24 Q: And you transmitted these files to the 25 Kings, so that they could use them for the building 58 1 permit drawings, correct? 2 A: No. 3 MR. CHAO: Lack of foundation. Calls 4 for speculation. You can answer Jock, I think you 5 answered. 6 A: No. No. 7 Q: Okay. And why do you say no, Mr. Sewall? 8 A: Because they were for the Kings' records of 9 land use permit, I was not in on the building permit 10 drawings, and the liability there would fall to the 11 owner or the drafting service, that they used. But 12 whenever we provide drawings, we get a hold harmless 13 agreement in return, that the drawings are to be used, 14 design only, and we take no responsibility for their 15 accuracy. And Mr. Padilla never called me. Mr. King 16 never asked for the use to provide those to Padilla 17 and Padilla took my drawings and copied them and 18 reused them without my permission. 19 Q: I see. So your drawings of course, do not 20 have any warning that they cannot be used without your 21 permission. Correct? 22 A: It's standard for the profession. file:///F/CASES3-PTF/KING/Discovery/Depo/Transcripts/Sewall,%20Jock%2010.11.22/JockSewall_Rough.txt[10/24/2022 1:16:15 PM] 21 construction. But she took over all the texting, while 22 Mr. King disappear. And so, that's what that's all 23 about. But where did the story come from, all of those 24 questions are very elementary. And Mr. King, of 25 course, be on top of that, but he somehow went into 116 1 hiding on that. 2 Q: So, you agree that this is communications 3 between you and Mrs. King, correct? 4 A: This is Mrs. King. She always stayed in it, 5 and even while Mr. King was telling me to get lost. 6 So, it was a little odd. And she was calling the 7 county too. 8 Q: When you're talking about this site plan 9 here, you're talking about the architect, Brian 10 Hofer's site plan that you used, correct? 11 A: Correct. 12 Q: And you didn't obtain any permission from 13 Brian Hofer to use that site plan, correct? 14 A: No. Hofer had used a previous survey on a 15 previous permit for that property, from Ketzel. He had 16 just copied it. 17 Q: So my question though for you, Mr. Sewall, 18 is you did not obtain permission from Brian Hofer? 19 A: No. The same information that was provided 20 to me by the owner, and had been used on a previous file:///F/CASES3-PTF/KING/Discovery/Depo/Transcripts/Sewall,%20Jock%2010.11.22/JockSewall_Rough.txt[10/24/2022 1:16:15 PM] 21 plan from Hofer, who had obviously cocked it. So, 22 there was no reason to contact Hofer. 23 Q: I see. And you have an understanding, are 24 you aware that the plan you're using for Mr. Hofer 25 wore his stamp, correct? 117 1 A: Yeah. And the county's permit stamp, and the 2 owner gave it to me to use. 3 Q: And you understood that Mr. Hofer's plan 4 explicitly said, it could not be used without his 5 permission for any purpose? Correct? 6 A: He had already used it from a previous set 7 of plans, so it wasn't original with him. 8 Q: Well, I understand that's what you're saying 9 now, sir. But at the time that you traced Mr. Hofer's 10 plan, you didn't obtain his permission to do so, 11 correct? 12 A: Correct. 13 MR. CHAO: Lacks foundation, calls for 14 speculation. You got his answer. 15 Q: And in fact, Mr. Sewall, you didn't obtain a 16 hold harmless agreement from Mr. Hofer, correct? 17 A: No. 18 Q: So, you conclude this part of the message 19 saying sent, "Let's get the facts and go from there. file:///F/CASES3-PTF/KING/Discovery/Depo/Transcripts/Sewall,%20Jock%2010.11.22/JockSewall_Rough.txt[10/24/2022 1:16:15 PM] 20 Prober's survey should tell us something. Please send 21 so we can meet. Best, Jock Sewall." You see that? 22 A: Yes, I do. 23 Q: And then, Ms. King replies, "Sent Thadius 24 said -- " On September 24th, correct? 25 A: "Sent Thadius said," I'm not sure what that 118 1 means. 2 Q: Well, this communication, you agree, is 3 taking place in the evening on September 24th, 2018? 4 Correct? And if we go back to exhibit five here -- 5 Oops, bear with me here. We have your letter sent the 6 following day to the Kings, on September 25th. "We 7 acknowledge that they provided you with the Prober 8 survey," correct? 9 A: Yes. 10 Q: Remark is next in order, exhibit eight. I'm 11 going to go ahead and share the screen. And Mr. 12 Sewall, can you see this document? 13 A: Yes. 14 Q: I'll try to zoom in here a little bit if I 15 can. That's about the farthest I can go. Is this the 16 Hofer plan that you used? 17 A: No. 18 Q: And why do you say that? 19 A: The one I used was had a lot of stamps on it file:///F/CASES3-PTF/KING/Discovery/Depo/Transcripts/Sewall,%20Jock%2010.11.22/JockSewall_Rough.txt[10/24/2022 1:16:15 PM] 19 you used. If you can give us about 10 minutes. Would 20 that be okay? 21 THE WITNESS: Up to you. 22 MR. Porter: Mr. Chao? 23 MR. CHAO: Tell me when it's back, 24 Jordan. 25 MR. Porter: Yeah, let's come back just 120 1 at two. 2 THE OFFICER: We're going off the 3 record at 1:51 PM. 4 (WHEREUPON A RECESS WAS TAKEN.) 5 THE OFFICER: We are back on the record 6 at 2:04 PM. Please go ahead. 7 BY MR. PORTER 8 Q: Thank you, Madam Court Reporter. Mr. Sewall, 9 I'll remind you after our short break, you remain 10 under the same oath you took this morning at the 11 outset of your deposition? 12 A: Yes. 13 Q: All right. I'm going to mark, as -- I call 14 it exhibit 8.1. And we'll take a look at this in just 15 a moment. I'm going to share the screen with you, Mr. 16 Sewall. Let me zoom in on this. This is a document 17 that was produced by your counsel in discovery. Here, 18 let me see if I have -- Oh, let me stop sharing for a file:///F/CASES3-PTF/KING/Discovery/Depo/Transcripts/Sewall,%20Jock%2010.11.22/JockSewall_Rough.txt[10/24/2022 1:16:15 PM] 19 one, because I think the bate stamp covered the -- 20 Let's see here. Oh, this is bate stamp JMS00091. 21 There's a very tiny bate stamp over here in this right 22 hand corner. Is this the Hofer plan that you relied 23 upon? 24 A: Yes. 25 Q: And so, we have an approval from County of 121 1 Santa Barbara that's been interlineated. Do you see 2 that? 3 A: Yes. 4 Q: And a zoning approval that's been 5 interlineated. Do you see that? 6 A: Yes. 7 Q: And the job copy of the plans, that's also 8 been crossed out. You see that? 9 A: Huh? 10 Q: And so, this plan though, has the zoning 11 approval on February 21st, 2008. Do you see that 12 stamp? 13 A: Uh-huh. 14 Q: And just to confirm, this is the copy that 15 you used to make the site plan for the LUP? 16 A: Yes. 17 Q: Mr. Sewall, as a licensed architect in file:///F/CASES3-PTF/KING/Discovery/Depo/Transcripts/Sewall,%20Jock%2010.11.22/JockSewall_Rough.txt[10/24/2022 1:16:15 PM] 18 California, you're prohibited from infringing upon the 19 works of other architects, correct? 20 A: Yes. 21 Q: Okay. And in fact, as a licensed architect 22 in California, you're not allowed to use another 23 architect's instruments of service without the consent 24 of the architect in a written contract, a written 25 agreement, or a written license specifically 122 1 authorizing the use. Correct? 2 A: What kind of work are you referring to? 3 Q: I'm talking about any, any instrument of 4 service. 5 A: Well, if an owner provides me with a 6 document, I am allowed to use that. 7 Q: Okay. What's the basis for that statement, 8 sir? 9 A: An attorney told me that they're -- 10 Q: Oh, and let me hold, let me stop you right 11 there. If it's, I don't want you to reveal any 12 conversations you've had with Mr. Chao. 13 A: Okay. It was Mr. Chao. 14 Q: Okay. And so I don't know, Mr. Chao, if you 15 want to give an instruction or not here. Let me ask 16 you this, Mr. Sewall, is it an attorney that you were 17 having a friendly conversation with or an attorney file:///F/CASES3-PTF/KING/Discovery/Depo/Transcripts/Sewall,%20Jock%2010.11.22/JockSewall_Rough.txt[10/24/2022 1:16:15 PM] 13 statutes and regulations adopted by the California 14 Architects Board, and your understanding the way that 15 board defines professional services for architects. 16 A: Yeah, I don't know. We're sort of getting 17 into the weeds here, pal. You got to be more specific. 18 Q: Okay. Well, what would the term 19 investigation mean to you in 2017 as it relates to an 20 architect's professional services? 21 MR. CHAO: [** 03:08:44] you can answer 22 though. 23 A: Investigation of, for undertaking a project? 24 Q: Okay. 25 A: Is that what you're asking? 132 1 Q: I'm one. I'm just curious what, I'm looking 2 to find out, Mr. Sewall, what your understanding of 3 what the phrase or the term investigation means as 4 used by the California Architects Board when 5 describing an architect's professional services? 6 A: Well, let's see. It would be investigating 7 code requirements for an ADU. It would be 8 investigating existing site conditions regarding the 9 ADU, using owner supplied information would certainly 10 be a proper procedure on a permitted set of drawings, 11 and providing billing information if they had any 12 concerns about that. So, investigation would be file:///F/CASES3-PTF/KING/Discovery/Depo/Transcripts/Sewall,%20Jock%2010.11.22/JockSewall_Rough.txt[10/24/2022 1:16:15 PM] 13 familiarity with the permitting process and obtaining 14 the permit through the county process scenes and 15 planners. So, yes, I would consider that 16 investigation. I would not consider investigation when 17 the owner provides information to me, you have to 18 start back and undertake a complete review and 19 research of an existing planner. 20 Q: Hmm, do you understand that an architect's 21 professional services as described by the California 22 Architects boards includes designs? 23 A: Sure. 24 Q: Okay. How about, do you have an 25 understanding that an architects professional services 133 1 defined by the California Architects Board includes an 2 evaluation of the project? 3 A: Evaluation? I'm not sure what you mean. What 4 kind of evaluation? 5 Q: What is your understanding of the word 6 evaluation as it relates to the California Architects 7 Board's use of that word? 8 A: Evaluation Of the clients? Evaluation of the 9 project? 10 Q: Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Let me 11 finish spitting it out before you start answering. file:///F/CASES3-PTF/KING/Discovery/Depo/Transcripts/Sewall,%20Jock%2010.11.22/JockSewall_Rough.txt[10/24/2022 1:16:15 PM] 12 A: Oh, okay. 13 Q: What's your understanding of the word 14 "evaluation" as used by the California Architects 15 Board when describing professional services? 16 MR. CHAO: Vague and ambiguous, lacks 17 foundation, overly broad in scope and time. You can 18 answer, talk to the extent you understand this 19 question. 20 A: I don't understand the question. Evaluation 21 is sort of a big part of everybody's life. 22 Q: Rig