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IN THE SUPERIOR COURT OF DEKALB COUNTY
STATE OF GEORGIA
GWINNETT COUNTY ASSOCIATION
OF EDUCATORS,
Plaintiff,
vs. Civil Action No. 20CV8172
GEORGIA ASSOCIATION OF
EDUCATORS,
Defendant.
HEARING TRANSCRIPT COVER SHEET
GWINNETT COUNTY ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS vs GA ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS
Hearing· ·on 11/22/2021 ·
·1· · · · · ·IN THE SUPERIOR COURT OF DEKALB COUNTY
· · · · · · · · · · · ·STATE OF GEORGIA
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·4· ·GWINNETT COUNTY ASSOCIATION· ·)
· · ·OF EDUCATORS,· · · · · · · · ·)
·5· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
· · · · · · · ·Plaintiff,· · · · · )
·6· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
· · · · ·vs.· · · · · · · · · · · ·) CIVIL ACTION NO.:
·7· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)· ·20CV8172-10
· · ·GEORGIA ASSOCIATION· · · · · ·)
·8· ·OF EDUCATORS,· · · · · · · · ·)
· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
·9· · · · · · ·Defendant.· · · · · )
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· · · · · · · · · · · · · HEARING BEFORE
13· · · · · · · THE HONORABLE JUDGE TANGELA M. BARRIE
· · · · · · · · · · · · CONDUCTED REMOTELY
14· · · · · · · · · · · ·NOVEMBER 22, 2021
· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·1:48 P.M.
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· · · · · REPORTED BY:
20· · · · · · · STEVE HUSEBY, RPR
· · · · · · · · · ·CCR-B-1372
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GWINNETT COUNTY ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS vs GA ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS
Hearing· ·on 11/22/2021 Page 2
·1· ·APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL:
·2· · · ·On Behalf of the Plaintiff:
·3· · · · · · ·(Appearance via webcam)
· · · · · · · ·DERIN B. DICKERSON, ESQ.
·4· · · · · · ·Alston & Bird
· · · · · · · ·One Atlantic Center
·5· · · · · · ·1201 West Peachtree Street
· · · · · · · ·Suite 4900
·6· · · · · · ·Atlanta, GA 30309-3424
· · · · · · · ·(404) 881-7000
·7· · · · · · · Derin.dickerson@alston.com
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· · · · · On Behalf of the Defendant:
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· · · · · · · ·(Appearance via webcam)
10· · · · · · ·AVA CONGER, ESQ.
· · · · · · · ·BURLEIGH L. SINGLETON, ESQ.
11· · · · · · ·KATHLEEN B. DODD BARTON, ESQ.
· · · · · · · ·Kilpatrick Townsend & Stockton LLP
12· · · · · · ·Suite 2800
· · · · · · · ·1100 Peachtree Street NE
13· · · · · · ·Atlanta, GA 30309-4528
· · · · · · · ·(404) 815 6639
14· · · · · · ·Aconger@kilpatricktownsend.com
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GWINNETT COUNTY ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS vs GA ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS
Hearing· ·on 11/22/2021 Page 3
·1· · · · · · · · · · · P R O C E E D I N G S
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·4· · · · · · · · · THE COURT:· This is case 20CV8172-10,
·5· ·Gwinnett County Association of Educators versus
·6· ·Georgia Association of Educators, Gwinnett County
·7· ·Association of Educators being represented today by
·8· ·Mr. Derin Dickerson and the Georgia Association of
·9· ·Educators have on their behalf Ms. Ava Conger,
10· ·Ms. Katie Barton, and Mr. Burleigh Singleton.· The
11· ·matter is being reported.
12· · · · So as I started out by saying that initially the
13· ·first time that it came before the Court was the TRO,
14· ·and it's essentially at this point we had two boards
15· ·elected, one that was presented by the Gwinnett County
16· ·Board of Educators and the other presented by the
17· ·Georgia Association of Educators.· And essentially the
18· ·issue was which board should reign at this point based
19· ·upon a review of the bylaws and the constitution of
20· ·each of the organizations.
21· · · · At the time I did not want the Court to get
22· ·involved in the educational issues without first
23· ·determining whether or not this matter could be
24· ·resolved by simply doing what was in the constitution
25· ·and the bylaws first to determine essentially, if you
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GWINNETT COUNTY ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS vs GA ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS
Hearing· ·on 11/22/2021 Page 4
·1· ·did those things in the bylaws would there be a need
·2· ·for court intervention.· And I made that ruling
·3· ·specifically because there is a provision in the
·4· ·Georgia Association of Educators' constitution where
·5· ·it basically says that once the GAE makes a decision
·6· ·there is a due process that occurs, and after that it
·7· ·can go to the representative bodies and their decision
·8· ·is final, and therefore that's that.
·9· · · · So my thought was -- thoughts were at that time
10· ·that by going through and doing the due process, that
11· ·the two organizations would end up understanding how
12· ·they exist with each other, or coexist with each
13· ·other, and that there's just one final outcome as a
14· ·result of the idea of coexisting.
15· · · · So it seems pretty simple to me because if you're
16· ·going to coexist, and it appears to be a parent/child
17· ·type of relationship, I thought this would eventually
18· ·work itself out.
19· · · · Apparently it did not.· After the Court was aware
20· ·that there was a censure that was done and that was
21· ·communicated to Gwinnett County, and then yet we still
22· ·received or had to handle the issue of motion for
23· ·summary judgment indicating still that Gwinnett County
24· ·Association of Educators believed that the Georgia
25· ·Association of Educators could not involve itself in
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GWINNETT COUNTY ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS vs GA ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS
Hearing· ·on 11/22/2021 Page 5
·1· ·their elections to the extent that they created or
·2· ·held a special election.
·3· · · · And so essentially the question becomes now, after
·4· ·we have the censure that was placed upon Georgia
·5· ·County -- Gwinnett County Association of Educators by
·6· ·the Georgia Association of Educators, do we still have
·7· ·an issue with regard to going forward, and we do.· So
·8· ·the Court went back through the constitution and
·9· ·bylaws of each of the organizations to try to
10· ·reconcile these two documents to determine how the
11· ·entire election should be handled or should be read.
12· · · · I'm going to start first with taking a look at the
13· ·Gwinnett County -- no, no, I'm going to start first by
14· ·looking at the Georgia Association of Educators'
15· ·constitution and bylaws.· Specifically I'm going to go
16· ·to 7.2 which it deals with the standard for the local
17· ·association, wherein it specifically indicates that
18· ·the association shall not affiliate a local
19· ·association unless it meets these minimum
20· ·requirements.· One, is that there must be a -- the
21· ·local association must have a one-person/one-vote
22· ·principle, must have open nominations and a secret
23· ·ballot, shall require membership in the association.
24· ·There should be due process when a member has been
25· ·censured or suspended or expelled, and that the local
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GWINNETT COUNTY ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS vs GA ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS
Hearing· ·on 11/22/2021 Page 6
·1· ·association has the ability to review the association
·2· ·to determine compliance with the minimum standards.
·3· · · · In order for Gwinnett County to be in association
·4· ·with the Georgia Association of Educators they must
·5· ·meet both minimum standards.· In subsection 7-2
·6· ·subsection E -- excuse me, F, specifically indicates
·7· ·that the Georgia Association can review the local
·8· ·association's procedures with regard to the
·9· ·compliance, the minimum compliance, that the Georgia
10· ·Association can review to determine whether or not the
11· ·Georgia -- sorry, to determine whether or not Gwinnett
12· ·County is in compliance.· We know that happened.· They
13· ·reviewed it.
14· · · · And as a result of their review they believe there
15· ·were voting irregularities.· They believed that there
16· ·was a failure of due process with one of the members
17· ·who wanted to run at that time, Mr. Westlake.· They
18· ·believed that there were -- sorry, there was lack of
19· ·evidence used to disqualify Brian Westlake as a
20· ·candidate for president, the use of the election
21· ·format that was determined to be insecure, individuals
22· ·on the ballots that were ineligible due to terms.
23· · · · Those were the issues that were presented verbally
24· ·throughout this whole process and then eventually with
25· ·this censure letter.
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GWINNETT COUNTY ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS vs GA ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS
Hearing· ·on 11/22/2021 Page 7
·1· · · · The question becomes though in their review what
·2· ·is the limits with regard to how the GAE conducts
·3· ·itself in regards to Gwinnett County.· Gwinnett
·4· ·County's position is you can censure, you can tell us
·5· ·what we did wrong, you can tell us where we went
·6· ·wrong, you can tell us that we do not -- cannot
·7· ·affiliate with you, but what you can't do is conduct
·8· ·the election.· But there is nothing in your bylaws
·9· ·or -- your bylaws that will allow you to actually
10· ·conduct the election.· You may censure, you may
11· ·suspend, you may disqualify, but you may not actually
12· ·conduct the election.
13· · · · And the Court agrees.· I think it's pretty clear
14· ·that there is no other provision that the Court has
15· ·found going painstakingly word by word through the
16· ·constitution that would allow GAE to conduct the
17· ·election.· GAE can say to them your election is not
18· ·proper, your election did not have a one person/one
19· ·vote, your election did not review to determine
20· ·whether or not the participants or the candidates were
21· ·eligible to run, your voting format was insecure; all
22· ·of the things that are required for participation into
23· ·GAE were not done, and consequently you need to do
24· ·them.
25· · · · So I think the Georgia Association of -- I mean
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GWINNETT COUNTY ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS vs GA ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS
Hearing· ·on 11/22/2021 Page 8
·1· ·Gwinnett County was on board with regards to that.· So
·2· ·now that makes me take a look at Gwinnett County
·3· ·Association's position, because their position is that
·4· ·the Georgia Association could not conduct the
·5· ·election; that they could conduct the election, and of
·6· ·course they can.· I mean, it's their organization,
·7· ·except that there are limitations on what you can do
·8· ·with regard to a board.
·9· · · · Based on your constitution as it stands right now,
10· ·it says that you shall affiliate with the Georgia
11· ·Association of Educators, that you shall affiliate,
12· ·and the only way to affiliate with them is to adhere
13· ·to their voting requirements.· And one of their --
14· ·specifically in your 4.2 voting principles, it also
15· ·has the same provision that the GAE has on voting, the
16· ·association shall apply the one person/one vote
17· ·principles for representation on its governing bodies,
18· ·one person/one vote.· And that's in 4.2.
19· · · · Also in 6.1 it says, the Association shall comply
20· ·with the affiliation requirements of GAE.· GAE has
21· ·already told you you did not do what they told you to
22· ·do, which means that you're in violation of your own
23· ·constitution.· For the Court, that means that the
24· ·board that you selected is also improper and the
25· ·vote -- board that the GAE selected was likewise
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GWINNETT COUNTY ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS vs GA ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS
Hearing· ·on 11/22/2021 Page 9
·1· ·improper.· Therefore, for the Court's perspective, as
·2· ·the bylaws stand right now, there is no board because
·3· ·no board was properly selected.
·4· · · · Now, I may be overreaching just a tad, and the
·5· ·reason is because your motions for summary judgment is
·6· ·really all that's before the Court.· They are both
·7· ·denied.· And that is because what you're asking for
·8· ·from me, ultimately your prayer for relief the Court
·9· ·cannot grant, because I don't believe either of you
10· ·properly handled your election and properly handled
11· ·your election in the light of -- in light of your
12· ·constitutions and of your bylaws.
13· · · · There is no way that the GAE can tell you
14· ·basically as -- I'm going to say child, I should
15· ·probably use another word -- organization, and says to
16· ·you, you have not done this properly; your voting
17· ·mechanisms are not proper, the way you qualified or
18· ·disqualified the candidates was not -- that that
19· ·procedure was not correct.
20· · · · And consequently their position is they do not
21· ·have to accept your board, which we already know they
22· ·have a right to do that, because their position is
23· ·that if you do not qualify with these minimum
24· ·requirements, our voting requirements, and we do not
25· ·acknowledge you, we don't have to acknowledge you.
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GWINNETT COUNTY ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS vs GA ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS
Hearing· ·on 11/22/2021 Page 10
·1· · · · Now, and the reason I said I overstepped just a
·2· ·tad bit is for two reasons perhaps.· One is that one
·3· ·of your abilities, one of the things you could have
·4· ·done is that you could suspend, because the idea
·5· ·should be for the parent -- for Gwinnett County that
·6· ·we don't want to be disassociated, because if we're
·7· ·disassociated then according to their bylaws they
·8· ·can't exist.· Now, you might change them, but as they
·9· ·stand right now if -- if the Georgia Association of
10· ·Educators do not -- excuse me, if they disaffiliate
11· ·you, then according to your constitution you would
12· ·automatically be in violation, like you wouldn't
13· ·exist.· You would have to revamp but you wouldn't
14· ·exist because it says you shall affiliate.· You would
15· ·be -- that's -- that would be in contradiction to your
16· ·constitution.
17· · · · And it makes sense, because you should not be able
18· ·to be a part of an organization using voting
19· ·procedures that the -- that the parent organization's
20· ·already indicated are insecure, and then you propound
21· ·that vote or those members on the organization even
22· ·though they have indicated that they do not meet our
23· ·standards.· It should not be that GAE has to accept
24· ·those members.
25· · · · But I think that you are correct that they cannot
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GWINNETT COUNTY ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS vs GA ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS
Hearing· ·on 11/22/2021 Page 11
·1· ·make you get or make you have a certain type of
·2· ·election; as long as you meet the minimum requirements
·3· ·then that should be sufficient.
·4· · · · But I also think they have a right to disassociate
·5· ·you or censure you to let you know to get it right.
·6· ·And the reason why I think I had a -- I thought in the
·7· ·beginning of this case that the case would resolve
·8· ·itself, because I think I made the assumption that you
·9· ·both wanted to be together.· And if you both wanted to
10· ·be together and you basically had to coexist off of
11· ·each other, then when the parent corporation has
12· ·decided that you have not behaved or conducted your
13· ·elections in a proper manner to be associated with it,
14· ·that you would automatically fix it.· But that didn't
15· ·appear to happen.
16· · · · So one, I don't think the position that the Court
17· ·has taken on whether or not your board as it stands
18· ·right now is proper because the other issue that GAE
19· ·has brought up to the Court is that they believe that
20· ·their process rights were violated in the concept of
21· ·telling them that they had done something wrong in not
22· ·being a part of the process before the censure
23· ·happened.· I think that seems to be, at least they're
24· ·saying that there's an appeal letter that the GAE was
25· ·not provided 30 days notice before that October 21st
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GWINNETT COUNTY ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS vs GA ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS
Hearing· ·on 11/22/2021 Page 12
·1· ·hearing to determine whether or not the push on the
·2· ·candidate or the push on the special election should
·3· ·have occurred.
·4· · · · And so in other words, before you made the
·5· ·decision, before GAE made the decision that the
·6· ·election was improper or that the voting mechanisms
·7· ·were wrong, or that Westlake had violated some
·8· ·provision, before you made the decision that that did
·9· ·not happen or that those things did happen, they
10· ·deserved to be heard.· But I do remember at least
11· ·there was some thought that you refused to come to the
12· ·table.· But that was not the issue before me on these
13· ·motions for summary judgment.
14· · · · So that's why I say I may have gone just a tad bit
15· ·over by making the final issues with regard to whether
16· ·or not the Georgia County (sic) Association of
17· ·Educator board is not proper, because the Court has
18· ·not taken a specific view to determine whether or not
19· ·there was any due process violation from GAE on to
20· ·Gwinnett County when -- because Gwinnett County
21· ·alleges that they did not receive notice and was not a
22· ·part of the process, so that they didn't understand it
23· ·was being censured, although there seems to be some
24· ·evidence contradictory to that as well.
25· · · · But that's the reason why I said on whether or not
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GWINNETT COUNTY ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS vs GA ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS
Hearing· ·on 11/22/2021 Page 13
·1· ·to finally say that Gwinnett County's board is
·2· ·improper, I might have gone just a tad bit over that,
·3· ·but based on what I've seen, based on what I've seen
·4· ·in the record thus far, it seems to suggest that the
·5· ·board that was elected is improper, because according
·6· ·to the constitution, once the representative board has
·7· ·made a decision, which they did, then your board is
·8· ·improper.
·9· · · · So the question becomes whether or not you want to
10· ·fix it to the extent that you state in terms -- to the
11· ·extent that you say it aligned with your constitution
12· ·and your bylaws.
13· · · · That's how I see this case, is that generally as
14· ·we stand right now, from last year until now there has
15· ·been no board with actual authority.
16· · · · · · · · · MR. DICKERSON:· Do you want us to
17· ·answer that, Your Honor?
18· · · · · · · · · THE COURT:· That's kind of rhetorical
19· ·but I will give you -- I will give you an opportunity.
20· ·So where does that leave you at this juncture?· With
21· ·no board, with no actual authority.· I think that
22· ·means that Gwinnett County has to either redo the
23· ·election, or Gwinnett County has to decide not to
24· ·affiliate with the Georgia Association of Educators
25· ·and change their bylaws, or the Georgia Association of
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GWINNETT COUNTY ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS vs GA ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS
Hearing· ·on 11/22/2021 Page 14
·1· ·Educators can decide to disaffiliate as well, because
·2· ·Georgia -- Gwinnett County is refusing to abide by
·3· ·your minimum requirements.· And I think that's
·4· ·essentially where you are.
·5· · · · All right.· Mr. Dickerson?
·6· · · · · · · · · MR. DICKERSON:· All right.· Thank you,
·7· ·Your Honor, for your thoughtful consideration of these
·8· ·issues.· I've put a lot of time into this, which is
·9· ·not surprising.· And as I understand your ruling, I
10· ·just want to ask for one bit of clarification.
11· · · · The plaintiffs' motion for summary judgment sought
12· ·a ruling on its only count in this case which is a
13· ·declaratory judgment that GAE did not have the
14· ·authority to conduct the election on behalf of
15· ·Gwinnett County.· And as I understood the Court's
16· ·ruling, the Court has determined that that is correct,
17· ·that GAE did not have authority to conduct the
18· ·election on behalf of Gwinnett County.· And if that's
19· ·the case --
20· · · · · · · · · THE COURT:· I'm sorry, say that one
21· ·more time?
22· · · · · · · · · MR. DICKERSON:· I understand the
23· ·Court's ruling that Gwinnett Association did not --
24· ·I'm sorry, Georgia Association did not have authority
25· ·to conduct the election on behalf of Gwinnett County.
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GWINNETT COUNTY ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS vs GA ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS
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·1· · · · · · · · · THE COURT:· Correct.
·2· · · · · · · · · MR. DICKERSON:· And that was the relief
·3· ·that Gwinnett County was seeking in this lawsuit, and
·4· ·so it seems to me that the Court has in fact granted
·5· ·Gwinnett County's summary judgment with respect to
·6· ·that issue.
·7· · · · · · · · · THE COURT:· Give me one second.
·8· · · · · · · · · MR. DICKERSON:· Sure.
·9· · · · · · · · · (Off-the-record discussion.)
10· · · · · · · · · THE COURT:· So my position is, I want
11· ·to give some clarification just to make sure, the
12· ·position the Court is taking is that GAE's procedure
13· ·with regard to the censure and regard to pointing out
14· ·the deficits with regard to the election, those
15· ·activities were proper.· Okay.
16· · · · The question becomes whether or not the special
17· ·election in and of itself, was that proper.· So it's a
18· ·two -- it's almost like a two-part -- two-part, maybe
19· ·even three-part analysis on that.· And so with regard
20· ·to the decision to hold the special election, that
21· ·procedure I do not believe is proper.· I do not
22· ·believe that the GAE could hold a special election. I
23· ·think they could tell you to hold the special
24· ·election.· I believe that they can en
Preview
IN THE SUPERIOR COURT OF DEKALB COUNTY STATE OF GEORGIA GWINNETT COUNTY ASSOCIATION OF EDUCATORS, Plaintiff, vs. Civil Action No. 20CV8172 GEORGIA ASSOCIATION OF EDUCATORS, Defendant. HEARING TRANSCRIPT COVER SHEET GWINNETT COUNTY ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS vs GA ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS Hearing· ·on 11/22/2021 · ·1· · · · · ·IN THE SUPERIOR COURT OF DEKALB COUNTY · · · · · · · · · · · ·STATE OF GEORGIA ·2 ·3 ·4· ·GWINNETT COUNTY ASSOCIATION· ·) · · ·OF EDUCATORS,· · · · · · · · ·) ·5· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·) · · · · · · · ·Plaintiff,· · · · · ) ·6· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·) · · · · ·vs.· · · · · · · · · · · ·) CIVIL ACTION NO.: ·7· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)· ·20CV8172-10 · · ·GEORGIA ASSOCIATION· · · · · ·) ·8· ·OF EDUCATORS,· · · · · · · · ·) · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·) ·9· · · · · · ·Defendant.· · · · · ) 10 · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·-· - - 11 12 · · · · · · · · · · · · · HEARING BEFORE 13· · · · · · · THE HONORABLE JUDGE TANGELA M. BARRIE · · · · · · · · · · · · CONDUCTED REMOTELY 14· · · · · · · · · · · ·NOVEMBER 22, 2021 · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·1:48 P.M. 15 16 17 18 19 · · · · · REPORTED BY: 20· · · · · · · STEVE HUSEBY, RPR · · · · · · · · · ·CCR-B-1372 21 22 23 24 25 www.huseby.com Huseby Global Litigation 800-333-2082 GWINNETT COUNTY ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS vs GA ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS Hearing· ·on 11/22/2021 Page 2 ·1· ·APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL: ·2· · · ·On Behalf of the Plaintiff: ·3· · · · · · ·(Appearance via webcam) · · · · · · · ·DERIN B. DICKERSON, ESQ. ·4· · · · · · ·Alston & Bird · · · · · · · ·One Atlantic Center ·5· · · · · · ·1201 West Peachtree Street · · · · · · · ·Suite 4900 ·6· · · · · · ·Atlanta, GA 30309-3424 · · · · · · · ·(404) 881-7000 ·7· · · · · · · Derin.dickerson@alston.com ·8 · · · · · On Behalf of the Defendant: ·9 · · · · · · · ·(Appearance via webcam) 10· · · · · · ·AVA CONGER, ESQ. · · · · · · · ·BURLEIGH L. SINGLETON, ESQ. 11· · · · · · ·KATHLEEN B. DODD BARTON, ESQ. · · · · · · · ·Kilpatrick Townsend & Stockton LLP 12· · · · · · ·Suite 2800 · · · · · · · ·1100 Peachtree Street NE 13· · · · · · ·Atlanta, GA 30309-4528 · · · · · · · ·(404) 815 6639 14· · · · · · ·Aconger@kilpatricktownsend.com 15 16 17 · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · -· - - 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 www.huseby.com Huseby Global Litigation 800-333-2082 YVer1f GWINNETT COUNTY ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS vs GA ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS Hearing· ·on 11/22/2021 Page 3 ·1· · · · · · · · · · · P R O C E E D I N G S ·2 ·3 ·4· · · · · · · · · THE COURT:· This is case 20CV8172-10, ·5· ·Gwinnett County Association of Educators versus ·6· ·Georgia Association of Educators, Gwinnett County ·7· ·Association of Educators being represented today by ·8· ·Mr. Derin Dickerson and the Georgia Association of ·9· ·Educators have on their behalf Ms. Ava Conger, 10· ·Ms. Katie Barton, and Mr. Burleigh Singleton.· The 11· ·matter is being reported. 12· · · · So as I started out by saying that initially the 13· ·first time that it came before the Court was the TRO, 14· ·and it's essentially at this point we had two boards 15· ·elected, one that was presented by the Gwinnett County 16· ·Board of Educators and the other presented by the 17· ·Georgia Association of Educators.· And essentially the 18· ·issue was which board should reign at this point based 19· ·upon a review of the bylaws and the constitution of 20· ·each of the organizations. 21· · · · At the time I did not want the Court to get 22· ·involved in the educational issues without first 23· ·determining whether or not this matter could be 24· ·resolved by simply doing what was in the constitution 25· ·and the bylaws first to determine essentially, if you www.huseby.com Huseby Global Litigation 800-333-2082 YVer1f GWINNETT COUNTY ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS vs GA ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS Hearing· ·on 11/22/2021 Page 4 ·1· ·did those things in the bylaws would there be a need ·2· ·for court intervention.· And I made that ruling ·3· ·specifically because there is a provision in the ·4· ·Georgia Association of Educators' constitution where ·5· ·it basically says that once the GAE makes a decision ·6· ·there is a due process that occurs, and after that it ·7· ·can go to the representative bodies and their decision ·8· ·is final, and therefore that's that. ·9· · · · So my thought was -- thoughts were at that time 10· ·that by going through and doing the due process, that 11· ·the two organizations would end up understanding how 12· ·they exist with each other, or coexist with each 13· ·other, and that there's just one final outcome as a 14· ·result of the idea of coexisting. 15· · · · So it seems pretty simple to me because if you're 16· ·going to coexist, and it appears to be a parent/child 17· ·type of relationship, I thought this would eventually 18· ·work itself out. 19· · · · Apparently it did not.· After the Court was aware 20· ·that there was a censure that was done and that was 21· ·communicated to Gwinnett County, and then yet we still 22· ·received or had to handle the issue of motion for 23· ·summary judgment indicating still that Gwinnett County 24· ·Association of Educators believed that the Georgia 25· ·Association of Educators could not involve itself in www.huseby.com Huseby Global Litigation 800-333-2082 YVer1f GWINNETT COUNTY ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS vs GA ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS Hearing· ·on 11/22/2021 Page 5 ·1· ·their elections to the extent that they created or ·2· ·held a special election. ·3· · · · And so essentially the question becomes now, after ·4· ·we have the censure that was placed upon Georgia ·5· ·County -- Gwinnett County Association of Educators by ·6· ·the Georgia Association of Educators, do we still have ·7· ·an issue with regard to going forward, and we do.· So ·8· ·the Court went back through the constitution and ·9· ·bylaws of each of the organizations to try to 10· ·reconcile these two documents to determine how the 11· ·entire election should be handled or should be read. 12· · · · I'm going to start first with taking a look at the 13· ·Gwinnett County -- no, no, I'm going to start first by 14· ·looking at the Georgia Association of Educators' 15· ·constitution and bylaws.· Specifically I'm going to go 16· ·to 7.2 which it deals with the standard for the local 17· ·association, wherein it specifically indicates that 18· ·the association shall not affiliate a local 19· ·association unless it meets these minimum 20· ·requirements.· One, is that there must be a -- the 21· ·local association must have a one-person/one-vote 22· ·principle, must have open nominations and a secret 23· ·ballot, shall require membership in the association. 24· ·There should be due process when a member has been 25· ·censured or suspended or expelled, and that the local www.huseby.com Huseby Global Litigation 800-333-2082 YVer1f GWINNETT COUNTY ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS vs GA ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS Hearing· ·on 11/22/2021 Page 6 ·1· ·association has the ability to review the association ·2· ·to determine compliance with the minimum standards. ·3· · · · In order for Gwinnett County to be in association ·4· ·with the Georgia Association of Educators they must ·5· ·meet both minimum standards.· In subsection 7-2 ·6· ·subsection E -- excuse me, F, specifically indicates ·7· ·that the Georgia Association can review the local ·8· ·association's procedures with regard to the ·9· ·compliance, the minimum compliance, that the Georgia 10· ·Association can review to determine whether or not the 11· ·Georgia -- sorry, to determine whether or not Gwinnett 12· ·County is in compliance.· We know that happened.· They 13· ·reviewed it. 14· · · · And as a result of their review they believe there 15· ·were voting irregularities.· They believed that there 16· ·was a failure of due process with one of the members 17· ·who wanted to run at that time, Mr. Westlake.· They 18· ·believed that there were -- sorry, there was lack of 19· ·evidence used to disqualify Brian Westlake as a 20· ·candidate for president, the use of the election 21· ·format that was determined to be insecure, individuals 22· ·on the ballots that were ineligible due to terms. 23· · · · Those were the issues that were presented verbally 24· ·throughout this whole process and then eventually with 25· ·this censure letter. www.huseby.com Huseby Global Litigation 800-333-2082 YVer1f GWINNETT COUNTY ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS vs GA ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS Hearing· ·on 11/22/2021 Page 7 ·1· · · · The question becomes though in their review what ·2· ·is the limits with regard to how the GAE conducts ·3· ·itself in regards to Gwinnett County.· Gwinnett ·4· ·County's position is you can censure, you can tell us ·5· ·what we did wrong, you can tell us where we went ·6· ·wrong, you can tell us that we do not -- cannot ·7· ·affiliate with you, but what you can't do is conduct ·8· ·the election.· But there is nothing in your bylaws ·9· ·or -- your bylaws that will allow you to actually 10· ·conduct the election.· You may censure, you may 11· ·suspend, you may disqualify, but you may not actually 12· ·conduct the election. 13· · · · And the Court agrees.· I think it's pretty clear 14· ·that there is no other provision that the Court has 15· ·found going painstakingly word by word through the 16· ·constitution that would allow GAE to conduct the 17· ·election.· GAE can say to them your election is not 18· ·proper, your election did not have a one person/one 19· ·vote, your election did not review to determine 20· ·whether or not the participants or the candidates were 21· ·eligible to run, your voting format was insecure; all 22· ·of the things that are required for participation into 23· ·GAE were not done, and consequently you need to do 24· ·them. 25· · · · So I think the Georgia Association of -- I mean www.huseby.com Huseby Global Litigation 800-333-2082 YVer1f GWINNETT COUNTY ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS vs GA ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS Hearing· ·on 11/22/2021 Page 8 ·1· ·Gwinnett County was on board with regards to that.· So ·2· ·now that makes me take a look at Gwinnett County ·3· ·Association's position, because their position is that ·4· ·the Georgia Association could not conduct the ·5· ·election; that they could conduct the election, and of ·6· ·course they can.· I mean, it's their organization, ·7· ·except that there are limitations on what you can do ·8· ·with regard to a board. ·9· · · · Based on your constitution as it stands right now, 10· ·it says that you shall affiliate with the Georgia 11· ·Association of Educators, that you shall affiliate, 12· ·and the only way to affiliate with them is to adhere 13· ·to their voting requirements.· And one of their -- 14· ·specifically in your 4.2 voting principles, it also 15· ·has the same provision that the GAE has on voting, the 16· ·association shall apply the one person/one vote 17· ·principles for representation on its governing bodies, 18· ·one person/one vote.· And that's in 4.2. 19· · · · Also in 6.1 it says, the Association shall comply 20· ·with the affiliation requirements of GAE.· GAE has 21· ·already told you you did not do what they told you to 22· ·do, which means that you're in violation of your own 23· ·constitution.· For the Court, that means that the 24· ·board that you selected is also improper and the 25· ·vote -- board that the GAE selected was likewise www.huseby.com Huseby Global Litigation 800-333-2082 YVer1f GWINNETT COUNTY ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS vs GA ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS Hearing· ·on 11/22/2021 Page 9 ·1· ·improper.· Therefore, for the Court's perspective, as ·2· ·the bylaws stand right now, there is no board because ·3· ·no board was properly selected. ·4· · · · Now, I may be overreaching just a tad, and the ·5· ·reason is because your motions for summary judgment is ·6· ·really all that's before the Court.· They are both ·7· ·denied.· And that is because what you're asking for ·8· ·from me, ultimately your prayer for relief the Court ·9· ·cannot grant, because I don't believe either of you 10· ·properly handled your election and properly handled 11· ·your election in the light of -- in light of your 12· ·constitutions and of your bylaws. 13· · · · There is no way that the GAE can tell you 14· ·basically as -- I'm going to say child, I should 15· ·probably use another word -- organization, and says to 16· ·you, you have not done this properly; your voting 17· ·mechanisms are not proper, the way you qualified or 18· ·disqualified the candidates was not -- that that 19· ·procedure was not correct. 20· · · · And consequently their position is they do not 21· ·have to accept your board, which we already know they 22· ·have a right to do that, because their position is 23· ·that if you do not qualify with these minimum 24· ·requirements, our voting requirements, and we do not 25· ·acknowledge you, we don't have to acknowledge you. www.huseby.com Huseby Global Litigation 800-333-2082 YVer1f GWINNETT COUNTY ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS vs GA ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS Hearing· ·on 11/22/2021 Page 10 ·1· · · · Now, and the reason I said I overstepped just a ·2· ·tad bit is for two reasons perhaps.· One is that one ·3· ·of your abilities, one of the things you could have ·4· ·done is that you could suspend, because the idea ·5· ·should be for the parent -- for Gwinnett County that ·6· ·we don't want to be disassociated, because if we're ·7· ·disassociated then according to their bylaws they ·8· ·can't exist.· Now, you might change them, but as they ·9· ·stand right now if -- if the Georgia Association of 10· ·Educators do not -- excuse me, if they disaffiliate 11· ·you, then according to your constitution you would 12· ·automatically be in violation, like you wouldn't 13· ·exist.· You would have to revamp but you wouldn't 14· ·exist because it says you shall affiliate.· You would 15· ·be -- that's -- that would be in contradiction to your 16· ·constitution. 17· · · · And it makes sense, because you should not be able 18· ·to be a part of an organization using voting 19· ·procedures that the -- that the parent organization's 20· ·already indicated are insecure, and then you propound 21· ·that vote or those members on the organization even 22· ·though they have indicated that they do not meet our 23· ·standards.· It should not be that GAE has to accept 24· ·those members. 25· · · · But I think that you are correct that they cannot www.huseby.com Huseby Global Litigation 800-333-2082 YVer1f GWINNETT COUNTY ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS vs GA ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS Hearing· ·on 11/22/2021 Page 11 ·1· ·make you get or make you have a certain type of ·2· ·election; as long as you meet the minimum requirements ·3· ·then that should be sufficient. ·4· · · · But I also think they have a right to disassociate ·5· ·you or censure you to let you know to get it right. ·6· ·And the reason why I think I had a -- I thought in the ·7· ·beginning of this case that the case would resolve ·8· ·itself, because I think I made the assumption that you ·9· ·both wanted to be together.· And if you both wanted to 10· ·be together and you basically had to coexist off of 11· ·each other, then when the parent corporation has 12· ·decided that you have not behaved or conducted your 13· ·elections in a proper manner to be associated with it, 14· ·that you would automatically fix it.· But that didn't 15· ·appear to happen. 16· · · · So one, I don't think the position that the Court 17· ·has taken on whether or not your board as it stands 18· ·right now is proper because the other issue that GAE 19· ·has brought up to the Court is that they believe that 20· ·their process rights were violated in the concept of 21· ·telling them that they had done something wrong in not 22· ·being a part of the process before the censure 23· ·happened.· I think that seems to be, at least they're 24· ·saying that there's an appeal letter that the GAE was 25· ·not provided 30 days notice before that October 21st www.huseby.com Huseby Global Litigation 800-333-2082 YVer1f GWINNETT COUNTY ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS vs GA ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS Hearing· ·on 11/22/2021 Page 12 ·1· ·hearing to determine whether or not the push on the ·2· ·candidate or the push on the special election should ·3· ·have occurred. ·4· · · · And so in other words, before you made the ·5· ·decision, before GAE made the decision that the ·6· ·election was improper or that the voting mechanisms ·7· ·were wrong, or that Westlake had violated some ·8· ·provision, before you made the decision that that did ·9· ·not happen or that those things did happen, they 10· ·deserved to be heard.· But I do remember at least 11· ·there was some thought that you refused to come to the 12· ·table.· But that was not the issue before me on these 13· ·motions for summary judgment. 14· · · · So that's why I say I may have gone just a tad bit 15· ·over by making the final issues with regard to whether 16· ·or not the Georgia County (sic) Association of 17· ·Educator board is not proper, because the Court has 18· ·not taken a specific view to determine whether or not 19· ·there was any due process violation from GAE on to 20· ·Gwinnett County when -- because Gwinnett County 21· ·alleges that they did not receive notice and was not a 22· ·part of the process, so that they didn't understand it 23· ·was being censured, although there seems to be some 24· ·evidence contradictory to that as well. 25· · · · But that's the reason why I said on whether or not www.huseby.com Huseby Global Litigation 800-333-2082 YVer1f GWINNETT COUNTY ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS vs GA ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS Hearing· ·on 11/22/2021 Page 13 ·1· ·to finally say that Gwinnett County's board is ·2· ·improper, I might have gone just a tad bit over that, ·3· ·but based on what I've seen, based on what I've seen ·4· ·in the record thus far, it seems to suggest that the ·5· ·board that was elected is improper, because according ·6· ·to the constitution, once the representative board has ·7· ·made a decision, which they did, then your board is ·8· ·improper. ·9· · · · So the question becomes whether or not you want to 10· ·fix it to the extent that you state in terms -- to the 11· ·extent that you say it aligned with your constitution 12· ·and your bylaws. 13· · · · That's how I see this case, is that generally as 14· ·we stand right now, from last year until now there has 15· ·been no board with actual authority. 16· · · · · · · · · MR. DICKERSON:· Do you want us to 17· ·answer that, Your Honor? 18· · · · · · · · · THE COURT:· That's kind of rhetorical 19· ·but I will give you -- I will give you an opportunity. 20· ·So where does that leave you at this juncture?· With 21· ·no board, with no actual authority.· I think that 22· ·means that Gwinnett County has to either redo the 23· ·election, or Gwinnett County has to decide not to 24· ·affiliate with the Georgia Association of Educators 25· ·and change their bylaws, or the Georgia Association of www.huseby.com Huseby Global Litigation 800-333-2082 YVer1f GWINNETT COUNTY ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS vs GA ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS Hearing· ·on 11/22/2021 Page 14 ·1· ·Educators can decide to disaffiliate as well, because ·2· ·Georgia -- Gwinnett County is refusing to abide by ·3· ·your minimum requirements.· And I think that's ·4· ·essentially where you are. ·5· · · · All right.· Mr. Dickerson? ·6· · · · · · · · · MR. DICKERSON:· All right.· Thank you, ·7· ·Your Honor, for your thoughtful consideration of these ·8· ·issues.· I've put a lot of time into this, which is ·9· ·not surprising.· And as I understand your ruling, I 10· ·just want to ask for one bit of clarification. 11· · · · The plaintiffs' motion for summary judgment sought 12· ·a ruling on its only count in this case which is a 13· ·declaratory judgment that GAE did not have the 14· ·authority to conduct the election on behalf of 15· ·Gwinnett County.· And as I understood the Court's 16· ·ruling, the Court has determined that that is correct, 17· ·that GAE did not have authority to conduct the 18· ·election on behalf of Gwinnett County.· And if that's 19· ·the case -- 20· · · · · · · · · THE COURT:· I'm sorry, say that one 21· ·more time? 22· · · · · · · · · MR. DICKERSON:· I understand the 23· ·Court's ruling that Gwinnett Association did not -- 24· ·I'm sorry, Georgia Association did not have authority 25· ·to conduct the election on behalf of Gwinnett County. www.huseby.com Huseby Global Litigation 800-333-2082 YVer1f GWINNETT COUNTY ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS vs GA ASSOC. OF EDUCATORS Hearing· ·on 11/22/2021 Page 15 ·1· · · · · · · · · THE COURT:· Correct. ·2· · · · · · · · · MR. DICKERSON:· And that was the relief ·3· ·that Gwinnett County was seeking in this lawsuit, and ·4· ·so it seems to me that the Court has in fact granted ·5· ·Gwinnett County's summary judgment with respect to ·6· ·that issue. ·7· · · · · · · · · THE COURT:· Give me one second. ·8· · · · · · · · · MR. DICKERSON:· Sure. ·9· · · · · · · · · (Off-the-record discussion.) 10· · · · · · · · · THE COURT:· So my position is, I want 11· ·to give some clarification just to make sure, the 12· ·position the Court is taking is that GAE's procedure 13· ·with regard to the censure and regard to pointing out 14· ·the deficits with regard to the election, those 15· ·activities were proper.· Okay. 16· · · · The question becomes whether or not the special 17· ·election in and of itself, was that proper.· So it's a 18· ·two -- it's almost like a two-part -- two-part, maybe 19· ·even three-part analysis on that.· And so with regard 20· ·to the decision to hold the special election, that 21· ·procedure I do not believe is proper.· I do not 22· ·believe that the GAE could hold a special election. I 23· ·think they could tell you to hold the special 24· ·election.· I believe that they can en