Preview
Patricia Reed
1
1 NO. 15-0331-A
2 BRANDI N. SHAPLEY, AS ) IN THE DISTRICT COURT
NATURAL PARENT, NEXT )
3 FRIEND, AND LEGAL GUARDIAN )
OF JLR, A MINOR, )
4 )
Plaintiff, )
5 )
VS. ) SMITH COUNTY, TEXAS
6 )
KATHARINA A. KLOUDA, M.D., )
7 AND FOUR SEASONS WOMEN'S )
HEALTH, P.A., )
8 )
Defendants. ) 7TH JUDICIAL DISTRICT
9
10
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11
ORAL DEPOSITION OF
12
PATRICIA REED
13
AUGUST 3, 2016
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15
16 ORAL DEPOSITION OF PATRICIA REED, produced as a
17 witness at the instance of the DEFENDANTS, and duly
18 sworn, was taken in the above-styled and numbered cause
19 on AUGUST 3, 2016, from 10:59 a.m. to 12:20 p.m., before
20 Tami Lewis, RMR, CRR, CSR in and for the State of Texas,
21 reported by machine shorthand, at the law offices of
22 Flowers Davis, PLLC, located at 1021 ESE Loop 323, Suite
23 200, Tyler, Texas, pursuant to the Texas Rules of Civil
24 Procedure and the provisions stated on the record or
25 attached hereto.
DepoTexas, Inc. EXHIBIT "A"
Patricia Reed
2
1 A P P E A R A N C E S
2
FOR THE PLAINTIFF:
3
MR. THEODORE G. SKARBOWSKI
4 The Talaska Law Firm, PLLC
445 Heights Boulevard
5 Houston, Texas 77007
713.869.1240
6 713.869.1465 (Fax)
ted@ttlf.com
7
8 FOR THE DEFENDANTS KATHARINA A. KLOUDA, M.D., AND FOUR
SEASONS WOMEN'S HEALTH, P.A.:
9
MR. CHAD CARLTON ROOK
10 Flowers Davis, P.L.L.C.
1021 ESE Loop 323
11 Suite 200
Tyler, Texas 75701
12 903.534.8063
903.534.1650 (Fax)
13 ccr@flowersdavis.com
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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11:50:06 1 Justin, was that supervised visitation?
11:50:09 2 MR. SKARBOWSKI: Form.
11:50:09 3 A. Yes.
11:50:10 4 Q. (BY MR. ROOK) And who would -- would it have
11:50:14 5 to take place at a certain location, these visits?
11:50:16 6 A. Yes.
11:50:17 7 Q. Where would they take place?
11:50:18 8 A. The CPS office in Tyler.
11:50:19 9 Q. When you would visit with Justin, would you ask
11:50:39 10 him how he was doing?
11:50:40 11 MR. SKARBOWSKI: Form.
11:50:40 12 A. Yes.
11:50:40 13 Q. (BY MR. ROOK) And generally speaking, was --
11:50:47 14 was it -- I mean, was it hard on him being away from his
11:50:51 15 mother?
11:50:51 16 A. Yes.
11:50:51 17 Q. Would he tell you that?
11:50:52 18 A. Yes.
11:50:53 19 Q. Would it be common that Justin would cry during
11:51:03 20 these visits?
11:51:04 21 MR. SKARBOWSKI: Form.
11:51:04 22 A. Yes.
11:51:05 23 Q. (BY MR. ROOK) And did he tell you -- did you
11:51:11 24 ask him why he was crying or did he explain to you why
11:51:13 25 he was crying?
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11:51:14 1 A. Yes.
11:51:14 2 Q. What would he tell you?
11:51:15 3 MR. SKARBOWSKI: Form.
11:51:16 4 A. He wanted to come home.
11:51:17 5 Q. (BY MR. ROOK) Tough on him emotionally?
11:51:21 6 A. Yes, very.
11:51:22 7 MR. SKARBOWSKI: Form.
11:51:24 8 Q. (BY MR. ROOK) Was he -- did you perceive that
11:51:29 9 he was angry?
11:51:33 10 MR. SKARBOWSKI: Form.
11:51:33 11 A. He was hurt.
11:51:36 12 Q. (BY MR. ROOK) And what -- what did he either
11:51:40 13 say to you or what was your perception about what he was
11:51:43 14 hurt about?
11:51:44 15 MR. SKARBOWSKI: Form.
11:51:46 16 A. Because he didn't understand why he was removed
11:51:49 17 and why he couldn't come home --
11:51:51 18 Q. (BY MR. ROOK) Did you --
11:51:52 19 A. -- and why he couldn't see his mom or me.
11:51:56 20 Q. And did you try to give him any explanation?
11:51:58 21 A. I wasn't allowed to.
11:52:00 22 Q. Did they -- did -- did these visits -- would
11:52:05 23 there actually be a CPS person in the room during the
11:52:07 24 visits?
11:52:08 25 A. Yes.
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11:52:08 1 MR. SKARBOWSKI: Form.
11:52:09 2 Q. (BY MR. ROOK) And so they controlled to some
11:52:10 3 extent what you could say?
11:52:12 4 A. Yes.
11:52:12 5 Q. Did -- had -- did they give you -- help me
11:52:17 6 understand this. How did you know the topics that you
11:52:22 7 were supposed to stay away from? Did they explain it to
11:52:27 8 you or did they --
11:52:27 9 A. It was on a guideline, a paper guideline, and
11:52:29 10 if they overheard something that we wasn't supposed to
11:52:32 11 talk about, they would interrupt us and tell us that if
11:52:35 12 we said anything else, that we would be removed from the
11:52:37 13 visitation.
11:52:37 14 Q. Give me a couple of examples of topics you were
11:52:41 15 supposed to stay away from.
11:52:43 16 MR. SKARBOWSKI: Form.
11:52:43 17 A. Letting him know that we were trying to get him
11:52:45 18 to come home, anything along the lines of being in -- in
11:52:53 19 foster care. We wasn't allowed to talk about anything
11:52:56 20 about the court system. We wasn't allowed to talk
11:52:59 21 anything like that. We wasn't allowed to -- at some
11:53:03 22 point, we were not supposed to give them hugs and kisses
11:53:09 23 to leave or anything like that because they say it was
11:53:12 24 too upsetting for them.
11:53:15 25 Q. (BY MR. ROOK) Initially were you able to do
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11:53:17 1 that in terms of --
11:53:18 2 A. At first.
11:53:18 3 Q. -- giving them hugs and kisses?
11:53:21 4 MR. SKARBOWSKI: Form.
11:53:21 5 A. At first.
11:53:22 6 Q. (BY MR. ROOK) And when you would get ready to
11:53:23 7 leave, would the kids cry?
11:53:24 8 MR. SKARBOWSKI: Form.
11:53:25 9 A. Yes.
11:53:25 10 Q. (BY MR. ROOK) Hard on you and them?
11:53:26 11 MR. SKARBOWSKI: Form.
11:53:27 12 A. Yes.
11:53:28 13 Q. (BY MR. ROOK) This document that they gave you
11:53:30 14 to describe topics that you were supposed to stay away
11:53:33 15 from, do you still have a copy of that?
11:53:35 16 A. No, I had to sign it every time I went in.
11:53:37 17 Q. So it wasn't something they gave to you to
11:53:41 18 keep?
11:53:42 19 A. No.
11:53:42 20 Q. How was -- how was Justin when you got him back
11:53:55 21 in July of 2015?
11:53:56 22 A. He was happy to be home, afraid that he was
11:54:07 23 going to be taken out again, struggled with -- he told
11:54:16 24 me about kids that would tease him about his arm, the
11:54:21 25 foster parents being mean.
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11:54:24 1 Q. Kids tease him about his arm and then foster
11:54:27 2 parents being mean?
11:54:28 3 A. And the foster parents at one point -- I don't
11:54:30 4 remember which one it was. He did mention the fact that
11:54:34 5 one of the foster parents told him to -- something about
11:54:38 6 his -- quit using his arm as an excuse that he couldn't
11:54:43 7 do things. It took a while to get him back in the --
11:54:55 8 time frame of being back at home.
11:54:56 9 Q. Like when you say it took a while, are you
11:54:58 10 talking --
11:54:58 11 A. It still does. It's still hard on him, just
11:55:03 12 the emotional issue of everything.
11:55:07 13 Q. And explain to me what you mean by that.
11:55:11 14 A. Well, being ripped away from your family and
11:55:14 15 not being able to go back home is -- is hard on anybody,
11:55:19 16 and then on top of that, you know, kids aggravating him
11:55:25 17 and teasing him about his arm because he wasn't able to
11:55:29 18 do a lot of things.
11:55:30 19 Q. You say that it's still hard on him to some
11:55:45 20 extent about the time that he was taken away. Does he
11:55:50 21 still talk about that with you sometimes?
11:55:52 22 A. Sometimes he does.
11:55:53 23 Q. And like what -- what kind of things did he
11:55:56 24 say?
11:55:56 25 A. A lot of it just -- just things that -- that
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11:56:03 1 happened while he was there, not understanding -- still
11:56:10 2 not understanding the situation of why he was taken, why
11:56:15 3 that CPS did the things that they did.
11:56:19 4 Q. Have you -- now that he's not in CPS care, have
11:56:22 5 you tried to explain -- given him your side of why he
11:56:26 6 was taken away?
11:56:27 7 MR. SKARBOWSKI: Form.
11:56:27 8 A. I try not to go that far with him because to me
11:56:30 9 that's not -- it's -- he -- he could understand it, but
11:56:35 10 I just don't believe that that's something that he needs
11:56:37 11 to be bothered with at this point.
11:56:41 12 Q. (BY MR. ROOK) Did he -- did he say -- did he
11:56:44 13 ever tell you that any of the foster parents were
11:56:48 14 actually abusive?
11:56:49 15 A. Other than the fact of just telling him about
11:56:54 16 his arm, don't use that. I mean, that was to me more of
11:56:57 17 a verbal abuse than -- as far as hitting him and stuff
11:57:00 18 like that, no.
11:57:01 19 Q. Okay. Are you talking about comments about
11:57:04 20 don't use your arm as an excuse?
11:57:06 21 A. Yeah, and, you know, just he had mentioned a
11:57:08 22 point where he was -- one of his chores or something at
11:57:11 23 one of the places was to clean the table off and do the
11:57:14 24 dishes off the table, and he wasn't able to pick up all
11:57:17 25 the dishes at once. And he would have to do it one --
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11:57:21 1 one dish at a time, one plate at a time, and they --
11:57:24 2 they put him down for things like that.
11:57:28 3 Q. And your perception is that that was hard on
11:57:36 4 him?
11:57:36 5 A. Very hard on him.
11:57:37 6 Q. Mentally, emotionally?
11:57:39 7 A. Yes.
11:57:40 8 Q. All right. How -- what is your perception of
11:57:45 9 how Justin's doing now?
11:57:48 10 MR. SKARBOWSKI: Form.
11:57:49 11 A. As far as -- what are you -- what are you
11:57:56 12 talking about, as far as his arm or as far as -- what,
11:57:59 13 mentally, what?
11:58:00 14 Q. (BY MR. ROOK) Emotionally, mentally,
11:58:01 15 physically.
11:58:04 16 MR. SKARBOWSKI: Form.
11:58:04 17 A. He's doing okay. He still has struggles with
11:58:09 18 his arm. He --
11:58:09 19 Q. (BY MR. ROOK) Well, let's break it down then.
11:58:11 20 Let's talk about emotionally, how do you feel like
11:58:13 21 Justin's doing at the present time from your
11:58:16 22 observations as his grandmother?
11:58:18 23 A. A lot better than he was. He's happy.
11:58:25 24 Q. Seem to have friends?
11:58:27 25 A. Yes.
DepoTexas, Inc.
Preview
Patricia Reed 1 1 NO. 15-0331-A 2 BRANDI N. SHAPLEY, AS ) IN THE DISTRICT COURT NATURAL PARENT, NEXT ) 3 FRIEND, AND LEGAL GUARDIAN ) OF JLR, A MINOR, ) 4 ) Plaintiff, ) 5 ) VS. ) SMITH COUNTY, TEXAS 6 ) KATHARINA A. KLOUDA, M.D., ) 7 AND FOUR SEASONS WOMEN'S ) HEALTH, P.A., ) 8 ) Defendants. ) 7TH JUDICIAL DISTRICT 9 10 ----------------------------------- 11 ORAL DEPOSITION OF 12 PATRICIA REED 13 AUGUST 3, 2016 14 ----------------------------------- 15 16 ORAL DEPOSITION OF PATRICIA REED, produced as a 17 witness at the instance of the DEFENDANTS, and duly 18 sworn, was taken in the above-styled and numbered cause 19 on AUGUST 3, 2016, from 10:59 a.m. to 12:20 p.m., before 20 Tami Lewis, RMR, CRR, CSR in and for the State of Texas, 21 reported by machine shorthand, at the law offices of 22 Flowers Davis, PLLC, located at 1021 ESE Loop 323, Suite 23 200, Tyler, Texas, pursuant to the Texas Rules of Civil 24 Procedure and the provisions stated on the record or 25 attached hereto. DepoTexas, Inc. EXHIBIT "A" Patricia Reed 2 1 A P P E A R A N C E S 2 FOR THE PLAINTIFF: 3 MR. THEODORE G. SKARBOWSKI 4 The Talaska Law Firm, PLLC 445 Heights Boulevard 5 Houston, Texas 77007 713.869.1240 6 713.869.1465 (Fax) ted@ttlf.com 7 8 FOR THE DEFENDANTS KATHARINA A. KLOUDA, M.D., AND FOUR SEASONS WOMEN'S HEALTH, P.A.: 9 MR. CHAD CARLTON ROOK 10 Flowers Davis, P.L.L.C. 1021 ESE Loop 323 11 Suite 200 Tyler, Texas 75701 12 903.534.8063 903.534.1650 (Fax) 13 ccr@flowersdavis.com 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DepoTexas, Inc. Patricia Reed 48 11:50:06 1 Justin, was that supervised visitation? 11:50:09 2 MR. SKARBOWSKI: Form. 11:50:09 3 A. Yes. 11:50:10 4 Q. (BY MR. ROOK) And who would -- would it have 11:50:14 5 to take place at a certain location, these visits? 11:50:16 6 A. Yes. 11:50:17 7 Q. Where would they take place? 11:50:18 8 A. The CPS office in Tyler. 11:50:19 9 Q. When you would visit with Justin, would you ask 11:50:39 10 him how he was doing? 11:50:40 11 MR. SKARBOWSKI: Form. 11:50:40 12 A. Yes. 11:50:40 13 Q. (BY MR. ROOK) And generally speaking, was -- 11:50:47 14 was it -- I mean, was it hard on him being away from his 11:50:51 15 mother? 11:50:51 16 A. Yes. 11:50:51 17 Q. Would he tell you that? 11:50:52 18 A. Yes. 11:50:53 19 Q. Would it be common that Justin would cry during 11:51:03 20 these visits? 11:51:04 21 MR. SKARBOWSKI: Form. 11:51:04 22 A. Yes. 11:51:05 23 Q. (BY MR. ROOK) And did he tell you -- did you 11:51:11 24 ask him why he was crying or did he explain to you why 11:51:13 25 he was crying? DepoTexas, Inc. Patricia Reed 49 11:51:14 1 A. Yes. 11:51:14 2 Q. What would he tell you? 11:51:15 3 MR. SKARBOWSKI: Form. 11:51:16 4 A. He wanted to come home. 11:51:17 5 Q. (BY MR. ROOK) Tough on him emotionally? 11:51:21 6 A. Yes, very. 11:51:22 7 MR. SKARBOWSKI: Form. 11:51:24 8 Q. (BY MR. ROOK) Was he -- did you perceive that 11:51:29 9 he was angry? 11:51:33 10 MR. SKARBOWSKI: Form. 11:51:33 11 A. He was hurt. 11:51:36 12 Q. (BY MR. ROOK) And what -- what did he either 11:51:40 13 say to you or what was your perception about what he was 11:51:43 14 hurt about? 11:51:44 15 MR. SKARBOWSKI: Form. 11:51:46 16 A. Because he didn't understand why he was removed 11:51:49 17 and why he couldn't come home -- 11:51:51 18 Q. (BY MR. ROOK) Did you -- 11:51:52 19 A. -- and why he couldn't see his mom or me. 11:51:56 20 Q. And did you try to give him any explanation? 11:51:58 21 A. I wasn't allowed to. 11:52:00 22 Q. Did they -- did -- did these visits -- would 11:52:05 23 there actually be a CPS person in the room during the 11:52:07 24 visits? 11:52:08 25 A. Yes. DepoTexas, Inc. Patricia Reed 50 11:52:08 1 MR. SKARBOWSKI: Form. 11:52:09 2 Q. (BY MR. ROOK) And so they controlled to some 11:52:10 3 extent what you could say? 11:52:12 4 A. Yes. 11:52:12 5 Q. Did -- had -- did they give you -- help me 11:52:17 6 understand this. How did you know the topics that you 11:52:22 7 were supposed to stay away from? Did they explain it to 11:52:27 8 you or did they -- 11:52:27 9 A. It was on a guideline, a paper guideline, and 11:52:29 10 if they overheard something that we wasn't supposed to 11:52:32 11 talk about, they would interrupt us and tell us that if 11:52:35 12 we said anything else, that we would be removed from the 11:52:37 13 visitation. 11:52:37 14 Q. Give me a couple of examples of topics you were 11:52:41 15 supposed to stay away from. 11:52:43 16 MR. SKARBOWSKI: Form. 11:52:43 17 A. Letting him know that we were trying to get him 11:52:45 18 to come home, anything along the lines of being in -- in 11:52:53 19 foster care. We wasn't allowed to talk about anything 11:52:56 20 about the court system. We wasn't allowed to talk 11:52:59 21 anything like that. We wasn't allowed to -- at some 11:53:03 22 point, we were not supposed to give them hugs and kisses 11:53:09 23 to leave or anything like that because they say it was 11:53:12 24 too upsetting for them. 11:53:15 25 Q. (BY MR. ROOK) Initially were you able to do DepoTexas, Inc. Patricia Reed 51 11:53:17 1 that in terms of -- 11:53:18 2 A. At first. 11:53:18 3 Q. -- giving them hugs and kisses? 11:53:21 4 MR. SKARBOWSKI: Form. 11:53:21 5 A. At first. 11:53:22 6 Q. (BY MR. ROOK) And when you would get ready to 11:53:23 7 leave, would the kids cry? 11:53:24 8 MR. SKARBOWSKI: Form. 11:53:25 9 A. Yes. 11:53:25 10 Q. (BY MR. ROOK) Hard on you and them? 11:53:26 11 MR. SKARBOWSKI: Form. 11:53:27 12 A. Yes. 11:53:28 13 Q. (BY MR. ROOK) This document that they gave you 11:53:30 14 to describe topics that you were supposed to stay away 11:53:33 15 from, do you still have a copy of that? 11:53:35 16 A. No, I had to sign it every time I went in. 11:53:37 17 Q. So it wasn't something they gave to you to 11:53:41 18 keep? 11:53:42 19 A. No. 11:53:42 20 Q. How was -- how was Justin when you got him back 11:53:55 21 in July of 2015? 11:53:56 22 A. He was happy to be home, afraid that he was 11:54:07 23 going to be taken out again, struggled with -- he told 11:54:16 24 me about kids that would tease him about his arm, the 11:54:21 25 foster parents being mean. DepoTexas, Inc. Patricia Reed 52 11:54:24 1 Q. Kids tease him about his arm and then foster 11:54:27 2 parents being mean? 11:54:28 3 A. And the foster parents at one point -- I don't 11:54:30 4 remember which one it was. He did mention the fact that 11:54:34 5 one of the foster parents told him to -- something about 11:54:38 6 his -- quit using his arm as an excuse that he couldn't 11:54:43 7 do things. It took a while to get him back in the -- 11:54:55 8 time frame of being back at home. 11:54:56 9 Q. Like when you say it took a while, are you 11:54:58 10 talking -- 11:54:58 11 A. It still does. It's still hard on him, just 11:55:03 12 the emotional issue of everything. 11:55:07 13 Q. And explain to me what you mean by that. 11:55:11 14 A. Well, being ripped away from your family and 11:55:14 15 not being able to go back home is -- is hard on anybody, 11:55:19 16 and then on top of that, you know, kids aggravating him 11:55:25 17 and teasing him about his arm because he wasn't able to 11:55:29 18 do a lot of things. 11:55:30 19 Q. You say that it's still hard on him to some 11:55:45 20 extent about the time that he was taken away. Does he 11:55:50 21 still talk about that with you sometimes? 11:55:52 22 A. Sometimes he does. 11:55:53 23 Q. And like what -- what kind of things did he 11:55:56 24 say? 11:55:56 25 A. A lot of it just -- just things that -- that DepoTexas, Inc. Patricia Reed 53 11:56:03 1 happened while he was there, not understanding -- still 11:56:10 2 not understanding the situation of why he was taken, why 11:56:15 3 that CPS did the things that they did. 11:56:19 4 Q. Have you -- now that he's not in CPS care, have 11:56:22 5 you tried to explain -- given him your side of why he 11:56:26 6 was taken away? 11:56:27 7 MR. SKARBOWSKI: Form. 11:56:27 8 A. I try not to go that far with him because to me 11:56:30 9 that's not -- it's -- he -- he could understand it, but 11:56:35 10 I just don't believe that that's something that he needs 11:56:37 11 to be bothered with at this point. 11:56:41 12 Q. (BY MR. ROOK) Did he -- did he say -- did he 11:56:44 13 ever tell you that any of the foster parents were 11:56:48 14 actually abusive? 11:56:49 15 A. Other than the fact of just telling him about 11:56:54 16 his arm, don't use that. I mean, that was to me more of 11:56:57 17 a verbal abuse than -- as far as hitting him and stuff 11:57:00 18 like that, no. 11:57:01 19 Q. Okay. Are you talking about comments about 11:57:04 20 don't use your arm as an excuse? 11:57:06 21 A. Yeah, and, you know, just he had mentioned a 11:57:08 22 point where he was -- one of his chores or something at 11:57:11 23 one of the places was to clean the table off and do the 11:57:14 24 dishes off the table, and he wasn't able to pick up all 11:57:17 25 the dishes at once. And he would have to do it one -- DepoTexas, Inc. Patricia Reed 54 11:57:21 1 one dish at a time, one plate at a time, and they -- 11:57:24 2 they put him down for things like that. 11:57:28 3 Q. And your perception is that that was hard on 11:57:36 4 him? 11:57:36 5 A. Very hard on him. 11:57:37 6 Q. Mentally, emotionally? 11:57:39 7 A. Yes. 11:57:40 8 Q. All right. How -- what is your perception of 11:57:45 9 how Justin's doing now? 11:57:48 10 MR. SKARBOWSKI: Form. 11:57:49 11 A. As far as -- what are you -- what are you 11:57:56 12 talking about, as far as his arm or as far as -- what, 11:57:59 13 mentally, what? 11:58:00 14 Q. (BY MR. ROOK) Emotionally, mentally, 11:58:01 15 physically. 11:58:04 16 MR. SKARBOWSKI: Form. 11:58:04 17 A. He's doing okay. He still has struggles with 11:58:09 18 his arm. He -- 11:58:09 19 Q. (BY MR. ROOK) Well, let's break it down then. 11:58:11 20 Let's talk about emotionally, how do you feel like 11:58:13 21 Justin's doing at the present time from your 11:58:16 22 observations as his grandmother? 11:58:18 23 A. A lot better than he was. He's happy. 11:58:25 24 Q. Seem to have friends? 11:58:27 25 A. Yes. DepoTexas, Inc.