Preview
FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 04/22/2024 11:45 PM INDEX NO. 60767/2018
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1903 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 04/22/2024
EXHIBIT 30
FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 04/22/2024 11:45 PM INDEX NO. 60767/2018
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1903 CONFIDENTIAL RECEIVED NYSCEF: 04/22/2024
Deposition of Geoffrey Berry Pamela Goldstein, et al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc.
1
2 SUPREME COURT OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK
3 COUNTY OF WESTCHESTER
4 ---------------------------------X *
*
5 PAMELA GOLDSTEIN, ELLYN & TONY *
BERK as Administrators of the *
6 Estate of Winifred Berk, and PAUL *
BENJAMIN, on behalf of themselves *
7 and all others similarly situated, *
* INDEX NO:
8 PLAINTIFFS, * 60767/2018
*
9 vs *
*
10 HOULIHAN LAWRENCE INC., *
*
11 DEFENDANT. *
---------------------------------X
12
13 *** CONFIDENTIAL ***
14
15 VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION
16 of
17 GEOFFREY BERRY
18 White Plains, New York
19 Thursday, September 16, 2021
20
21
22
Reported by:
23
Mary Agnes Drury, RPR, NYACR, CLR
24
JOB NO. 9602
25
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Deposition of Geoffrey Berry Pamela Goldstein, et al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc.
1 GEOFFREY BERRY - CONFIDENTIAL
2 dollar volume factor into the assessment?
3 A. Well, there's two percentage points
4 for units and there is percentage point
5 increases for market share, and it is the
6 percentage of the whole; all companies, I think
7 at that time there were 250 companies, doing
8 business in White Plains in the Greater White
9 Plains area.
10 Q. And so then for a dual agent
11 transaction -- can market share be assessed
12 based on the total number of transaction sides?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And so then a dual agent transaction
15 Houlihan Lawrence gets credit for two
16 transaction sides, correct?
17 A. Correct.
18 Q. And so then a dual agent transaction
19 would increase Houlihan Lawrence's market share
20 more than a single agent transaction, correct?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And so then one way to increase the
23 company market share is to increase the total
24 number of dual agent transactions brokered by
25 the firm, correct?
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2 A. It's the result of.
3 Q. The result of an increase in the
4 number of dual agent transactions is an
5 increase in the company's total market share,
6 correct?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. The next entry or office performance
9 metric is "Company Title Capture Rate."
10 Do you see that?
11 A. Yes, I do.
12 Q. And so your goal was to increase the
13 company title capture rate by 20 percent?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And what is the company title
16 capture rate?
17 A. Opportunities given to the in-house
18 title company.
19 Q. When you say the in-house title
20 company, you're referring to Thoroughbred?
21 A. Title.
22 Q. -- Title?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. So were you employed by Thoroughbred
25 Title?
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Deposition of Geoffrey Berry Pamela Goldstein, et al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc.
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2 A. No.
3 Q. Was Thoroughbred Title a separate
4 company from Houlihan Lawrence?
5 A. I'm not sure.
6 Q. You but never received a paycheck
7 from Thoroughbred Title?
8 A. No.
9 Q. Are you familiar with a gentleman
10 named Steven Ferrara?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Who is Mr. Ferrara?
13 A. He was our title rep a long time ago
14 for a short period of time.
15 Q. He worked for Thoroughbred Title?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And so your job as a Houlihan
18 Lawrence office manager was to increase the
19 number of Houlihan Lawrence clients who
20 utilized the services of Thoroughbred Title; is
21 that right?
22 A. That was the attempt.
23 Q. And you also had a performance
24 metric for "Company Mortgage Leads."
25 Do you see that?
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Deposition of Geoffrey Berry Pamela Goldstein, et al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc.
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2 It appears, she said it was amazing,
3 so I guess that would indicate she was
4 happy. I don't know.
5 BY MR. VEST:
6 Q. Do you recall discussions with
7 Ms. Dalton about in-house deals?
8 A. No.
9 Q. You don't recall one way or another
10 or you have a definitive recollection that you
11 never discussed in-house deals with Ms. Dalton?
12 A. I can't say I never discussed
13 in-house deals with her, but I cannot recall
14 any particular conversations with her.
15 Q. Just for clarity: So as you sit
16 here today, you can't recall one way or another
17 any details of any conversation you had with
18 Ms. Dalton about in-house deals?
19 A. I'm sure there has been a
20 conversation, but I am not aware of it.
21 Q. And why do you say you're sure there
22 have been such conversations?
23 A. It's part of my business talking
24 about transactions. I'm sure in the
25 conversations I've had with Debbie Dalton
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Deposition of Geoffrey Berry Pamela Goldstein, et al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc.
1 GEOFFREY BERRY - CONFIDENTIAL
2 about transactions that she, as she mentioned
3 here in this note, that she's probably had a
4 conversation with me about it.
5 Q. Because you, yourself, took note of
6 the number of dual agent transactions brokered
7 by Houlihan Lawrence during a particular
8 reporting period, correct?
9 A. I'm sure I've said something along
10 the way about numerous in-house transactions.
11 Q. Meaning, that that's a positive
12 thing, correct?
13 A. Yeah.
14 Q. Because all things being equal, you,
15 as a White Plains office manager, would prefer
16 a dual agent transaction to a transaction
17 co-broked with one of Houlihan Lawrence's
18 rivals, right?
19 MR. MacGILL: Object to the form.
20 MR. VEST: You may answer.
21 THE WITNESS: Personally doesn't
22 really matter, but I'd like to see in-house
23 deals because, yes, it increases our market
24 share.
25 Q. And it has a corresponding decrease
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Deposition of Geoffrey Berry Pamela Goldstein, et al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc.
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2 on the market share of Houlihan Lawrence's
3 competitors, correct?
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. And so if you were interested in
6 increasing Houlihan Lawrence's market share,
7 one way to do it is increase the number of dual
8 agent transactions.
9 A. That is not my primary focus, but
10 that is the result of.
11 MR. VEST: So we've been going for
12 about an hour; I think now is a good time
13 for a break.
14 VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is now
15 11:56 a.m., and we are going off the
16 record.
17 (Whereupon, proceedings recessed for
18 a lunch break and once again resumed.)
19 VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is now
20 12:44 p.m., we're back on the record.
21 BY MR. VEST:
22 Q. Mr. Berry, Ms. Dalton was your
23 direct supervisor throughout the 2011 to 2018
24 time period?
25 A. Yes.
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2 Q. So it's fair to say then that your
3 job depended at least to some extent on, you
4 know, staying or pleasing her; is that fair?
5 A. Pleasing her? I wouldn't
6 characterize by pleasing her.
7 Q. Well, your job performance -- or let
8 me start over.
9 Your job depended, at least to some
10 extent, that she remained happy with your
11 performance?
12 A. Not only Debbie Dalton, but all of
13 corporate.
14 Q. And by corporate, you mean to
15 include Chris and Stephen Meyers?
16 A. The owners of the company, yes.
17 Q. And so what we were looking at
18 earlier as Exhibit 48, which perhaps you can
19 look at. Exhibit 48 is an example of
20 Ms. Dalton expressing her pleasure with your
21 performance as the manager of the White Plains
22 branch office, correct?
23 A. I would assume that.
24 Q. And you understood this to be an
25 encouragement by Ms. Dalton to continue to
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Deposition of Geoffrey Berry Pamela Goldstein, et al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc.
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2 agents to represent the clients and put this
3 deal together and go to contract and have a
4 closing on behalf of their clients.
5 Q. So is your answer that it does not
6 have the ability to tempt an agent to fail to
7 make required agency disclosure?
8 A. I can't answer on behalf of a
9 hundred agents.
10 Q. Well, you have answered on behalf of
11 all hundred agents with respect to your
12 testimony that it had no impact on their
13 conduct?
14 A. It is my belief that it has no
15 impact.
16 Q. So I want you to -- probe your same
17 belief as to whether it has the potential to
18 tempt an Houlihan Lawrence sales agent to fail
19 to make the proper agency disclosures?
20 A. It could.
21 Q. And it could also tempt an HL sales
22 agent to water down the agency disclosure so
23 that, you know, they don't set off an alarm for
24 a consumer; is that fair?
25 A. No, I disagree.
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Deposition of Geoffrey Berry Pamela Goldstein, et al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc.
1 GEOFFREY BERRY - CONFIDENTIAL
2 Q. The in-house bonus could tempt a
3 Houlihan Lawrence sales agent to steer clients
4 towards Houlihan Lawrence listings, would you
5 agree with that?
6 A. No, I disagree.
7 Q. You think it has no ability to tempt
8 a Houlihan Lawrence sales agent to steer
9 clients to Houlihan Lawrence listings?
10 A. Exactly.
11 Q. You think it has any ability to
12 tempt a Houlihan Lawrence sales agent to favor
13 a Houlihan Lawrence listing over a transaction
14 with an outside firm?
15 A. No.
16 Q. No impact whatsoever?
17 A. No. The sellers are deciding what
18 is the best interest of themselves.
19 Q. So in your view, sellers do not rely
20 on the guidance of their sales agents?
21 A. I'm sure they do.
22 Q. You're sure they do, because sales
23 agents are much more knowledgeable about the
24 real estate transaction experience, correct?
25 A. Yes. The sellers are not stupid;
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2 they're going to take the best offer, with the
3 best terms and the best conditions and satisfy
4 their best interest.
5 Q. And so your testimony is that a
6 sales agent has no ability to influence a
7 seller's decision as to which offer to accept?
8 A. I didn't say that.
9 Q. What influence does a sales agent
10 have on a seller's decision to accept an offer?
11 A. I can give you an example where an
12 agent might say, okay, you have two offers; one
13 is 500 and one is 520,000. The higher offer is
14 three-percent down, 97 percent financing. The
15 lower offer is all cash. My suggestion to you:
16 It would be in your best interest to take the
17 all cash offer, because these are the downfalls
18 of what could happen if you are trying to
19 secure the 97 percent financing.
20 Q. So the seller's agent by virtue of
21 their experience and repeat participation in
22 the real estate market positions them to guide
23 their clients in the assessment of the offers
24 that the seller receives, correct?
25 A. Yes.
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2 Q. And given that sellers hire sales
3 agents because of their experience and
4 knowledge of the industry, sellers typically
5 rely on the guidance they receive from the
6 sales agents, correct?
7 A. I hope so. Otherwise, they should
8 sell on their own, and save the money.
9 Q. I'll show you now what we'll mark as
10 plaintiff's Exhibit 49?
11 (Whereupon, Plaintiffs Exhibit 49,
12 Berry E-mail Dated 1/3/12, Bates Stamped
13 HL00142004 to '005, 2-Pages was marked for
14 identification.)
15 BY MR. VEST:
16 Q. Mr. Berry, I'll give you an
17 opportunity to read the substance, but I want
18 to identify it by the date and senders on the
19 first instance.
20 Do you have a copy of Plaintiffs'
21 Exhibit 49 in front you?
22 A. Yes, I do.
23 Q. And does this appear to be a
24 January 3rd, 2012, e-mail from yourself to
25 Cindy Landis?
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2 A. Um-huh, yes.
3 Q. And you understand Cynthia Landis is
4 and was at this time, the manager of the
5 Bronxville office?
6 A. Correct.
7 Q. Before I proceed to ask you
8 questions about the body of the e-mail, if
9 you'd like, I'll give you an opportunity to
10 review it?
11 A. Oh, absolutely. This was nine years
12 ago, so I would like to.
13 Q. Please take an opportunity.
14 (Witness peruses document.)
15 BY MR. VEST:
16 Q. Forgive me, but for the record, the
17 e-mail --
18 A. On the other side.
19 Q. -- begins with a January 3rd, 2012,
20 e-mail from Ms. Landis to Mr. Berry that
21 appears on page -- on the backside and page two
22 of the document.
23 Mr. Berry, have you had an
24 opportunity to review Plaintiffs' Exhibit 49?
25 A. I'll be done in a second.
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2 correct?
3 A. All new agents that are on a 50/50
4 split are eligible for the in-house bonus.
5 Q. And the vast majority of the agents
6 in the White Plains office are on a 50/50
7 split?
8 A. No.
9 Q. Would you say a majority of the
10 agents are on a 50/50 split?
11 A. No. Actively, there are two agents
12 on a 50/50 split presently.
13 Q. And even if an agent is not on a
14 50/50 split, they may still be eligible for an
15 in-house bonus, correct?
16 A. Each agent is hired and a
17 compensation package is offered, and there are
18 times where even if an agent was hired at a 60
19 or 65 percent split; in order to get them on
20 board with us, we would offer them five percent
21 in-house bonus.
22 Q. Now, you've indicated at least way
23 back in 2004, you took the position at Houlihan
24 Lawrence in part because it involved less agent
25 recruitment than your prior position; is that
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2 right?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Oh, excuse me.
5 A. Less time dedicated to formal
6 recruiting activities.
7 Q. Okay. You had nevertheless,
8 throughout your tenure at Houlihan Lawrence,
9 continued to engage in agent recruitment
10 activities, correct?
11 A. Absolutely.
12 Q. That's remained an important part of
13 your job throughout your tenure?
14 A. And today.
15 Q. And when you are -- as part of your
16 agent recruitment efforts, you often point to
17 the in-house bonus as one, among other reasons,
18 an agent should join Houlihan Lawrence,
19 correct?
20 A. Yes.
21 (Whereupon, Plaintiffs Exhibit 50,
22 Berry E-mail Dated 11/22/17, Bates Stamped
23 HL00089767 to '774, 8-Pages was marked for
24 identification.)
25 BY MR. VEST:
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2 Q. I'll show you what we'll mark as
3 Plaintiffs' Exhibit 50.
4 Mr. Berry, do you have a copy of
5 Plaintiffs' Exhibit 50 in front of you?
6 A. Yes, I do.
7 Q. This appears to be a series of
8 e-mails between yourself and Tina Dunne, some
9 of which -- or it looks like most of which
10 Ms. Noreli is a CC recipient on?
11 A. Yes, I see that.
12 Q. I want to direct you to your e-mail
13 at the very first page; do you see that, a
14 November 22nd, 2017, e-mail to Tina Dunne?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Tina Dunne worked at Houlihan
17 Lawrence's corporate headquarters?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And is she involved in payroll
20 processing or if you would -- let me withdraw
21 that and ask you to describe her function?
22 A. She works in the accounting
23 department.
24 Q. And so what you're doing here in
25 this first e-mail is sending Ms. Dunne, a
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2 A. I am. Go ahead.
3 MR. VEST: So I will show you now
4 what we'll mark as Plaintiffs' Exhibit 52.
5 (Whereupon, Plaintiffs Exhibit 52,
6 Okamoto E-mail Dated 1/27/13, Bates Stamped
7 HL00089999 to '005, 7-Pages was marked for
8 identification.)
9 BY MR. VEST:
10 Q. Mr. Berry, do you have a copy of
11 Plaintiffs' Exhibit 52 in front of you?
12 A. I do.
13 Q. And do you see if you turn to the
14 bottom of HL90003, that this is a -- what
15 begins as an e-mail from Mr. Okamoto to Aaron
16 Velez, and then continues with an exchange of
17 e-mails first between yourself and Mr. Velez,
18 and then concludes with an e-mail between
19 yourself and Mr. Okamoto.
20 Do you see that?
21 A. I see the to and froms, yes.
22 Q. Okay. And you see the subject of
23 the e-mail is 3 Fernwood.
24 Do you see that?
25 A. Yes, I do.
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2 Q. Do you have any reason to doubt that
3 you sent and received these e-mails?
4 A. I see my name there, so I assume I
5 received them.
6 Q. I would ask you to look at the
7 bottom of the second page of the document,
8 HL90000?
9 A. 90000?
10 Q. Yes. So it's the second page of the
11 document from the front.
12 A. Okay.
13 Q. And do you see that the e-mail at
14 the bottom of the page is a January 27th e-mail
15 from yourself to Aaron Velez with a copy to
16 Mr. Okamoto?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. And specifically, I want to direct
19 your attention to the sentence that appears
20 right before the last sentence.
21 And, sir, do you see there that you
22 say "Believe me, what manager doesn't want an
23 in-house deal and what agent doesn't want an
24 in-house bonus."
25 Do you see that?
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2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And that remains your view today,
4 correct?
5 A. Sure.
6 Q. Because, you know, any manager would
7 want an in-house deal, because it increases
8 gross commission income?
9 A. Right, we discussed that already.
10 Q. And any manager would want an
11 in-house deal because it increases the company
12 market share, correct?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And likewise, any agent would want
15 an in-house bonus, because it increases their
16 payout on a transaction, correct?
17 A. Correct.
18 Q. Do you recall sending this e-mail?
19 A. First of all, I'd have to read the
20 whole e-mail to recall; it's that long ago.
21 Mark has no longer worked for me -- it must be
22 seven years he hasn't worked for me.
23 So if you want, we'll take the time
24 to read the document, and then I can speak from
25 hopefully generating memory about this
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2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And, you know, we talked about that
4 you would, at times, rely on Ms. Chrystal. Did
5 you also consult Mr. Arlt on agency disclosure
6 matters?
7 A. No.
8 Q. Did you have an opportunity to work
9 with Mr. Arlt over the course of your tenure?
10 A. What do you mean work with?
11 Q. In any way.
12 A. We were both managers at Houlihan
13 Lawrence.
14 Q. So did you have interactions with
15 Mr. Arlt over of the course of the years?
16 A. Briefly, if it involved a
17 transaction where both of our offices were on;
18 if there was any complications, we would
19 discuss them.
20 Q. And did you develop sort of an
21 understanding of Mr. Arlt's reputation, at
22 least among managers, within Houlihan Lawrence?
23 A. No, I had no opinion.
24 Q. Did you have any understanding as
25 Ms. Dalton's view of Mr. Arlt?
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2 A. Absolutely not.
3 Q. Have you had any discussions with
4 Ms. Dalton about the in-house bonus?
5 A. Not that I recall.
6 Q. Do you recall any discussions with
7 Chris Meyers about the in-house bonus?
8 A. Not that I recall.
9 Q. Do you recall any discussions with
10 Stephen Meyers about the in-house bonus?
11 A. Not that I recall.
12 Q. Do you recall any discussions with
13 any of your sales agents about the in-house
14 bonus?
15 A. Well, of course, I'd have
16 discussions. When I'm hiring every agent, I'm
17 discussing the in-house bonus.
18 Q. And so you're just generally
19 recalling that it was a part of your usual
20 custom and practice to discuss the in-house
21 bonus with incoming agents?
22 A. It's listed on the Welcome to
23 Houlihan Lawrence document.
24 Q. And the Welcome to Houlihan Lawrence
25 document is a document that highlights what you
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1 GEOFFREY BERRY - CONFIDENTIAL
2 regard as some of the advantages of working
3 with Houlihan Lawrence?
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. And that's a document that it was
6 your usual and custom and practice throughout
7 2011 to 2018 to present to prospective sales
8 agents to recruit them to Houlihan Lawrence.
9 Correct?
10 A. Not all agents.
11 Q. Who would you not present it to?
12 A. I would give that to pretty much
13 experienced agents; new agents are green,
14 they're starting from the beginning.
15 Q. Meaning, they wouldn't necessarily
16 be able to appreciate some of the advantages
17 that you're highlighting?
18 A. Correct.
19 Q. But with respect to those agents,
20 one of the things that you would point out to
21 them and if they could understand, would be
22 their eligibility for the in-house bonus?
23 A. Correct.
24 Q. And so part of the reason you would
25 point it out to those green agents is to make
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1 GEOFFREY BERRY - CONFIDENTIAL
2 them aware that they can make more money
3 working with Houlihan Lawrence, than they could
4 with working with one of its competitors; is
5 that right?
6 A. That wasn't the intent talking about
7 the in-house bonus, it was just one of the
8 perks that come with working with Houlihan
9 Lawrence.
10 Q. Did -- aside from, you know, your
11 recollections of your usual custom and practice
12 about discussing the in-house bonus with new
13 agents, do you recall any specific discussions
14 about the in-house bonus with sales agents?
15 A. Not really.
16 Q. Did a Houlihan Lawrence sales agent
17 ever express any concern about the in-house
18 bonus to you?
19 A. I'm sure they have. I don't recall
20 specifically.
21 Q. What makes you certain that they
22 had?
23 A. Either they didn't understand how
24 the bonus worked, or they weren't sure if they
25 were entitled to it or not.
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2 Q. Do you recall any discussions with
3 any Houlihan Lawrence sales agents where they
4 raised the question about the appropriateness
5 or the legality of the in-house bonus?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Have you -- do you recall -- have
8 you had any discussions with anyone affiliated
9 with Houlihan Lawrence about whether it was
10 appropriate for Houlihan Lawrence to pay an
11 in-house bonus?
12 A. No.
13 Q. And it's not your -- you had not
14 trained or instructed Houlihan Lawrence sales
15 agents to disclose the in-house bonus to
16 Houlihan Lawrence clients, correct?
17 A. I don't think it's any of their
18 business.
19 Q. Right. And so you would not
20 instruct or train the Houlihan Lawrence sales
21 agents under your supervision to disclose the
22 in-house bonus to Houlihan Lawrence clients,
23 correct?
24 A. Correct.
25 Q. And, sir, you as an office manager
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1 GEOFFREY BERRY - CONFIDENTIAL
2 have never been instructed by anyone at
3 Houlihan Lawrence
Preview
FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 04/22/2024 11:45 PM INDEX NO. 60767/2018 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1903 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 04/22/2024 EXHIBIT 30 FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 04/22/2024 11:45 PM INDEX NO. 60767/2018 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1903 CONFIDENTIAL RECEIVED NYSCEF: 04/22/2024 Deposition of Geoffrey Berry Pamela Goldstein, et al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc. 1 2 SUPREME COURT OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK 3 COUNTY OF WESTCHESTER 4 ---------------------------------X * * 5 PAMELA GOLDSTEIN, ELLYN & TONY * BERK as Administrators of the * 6 Estate of Winifred Berk, and PAUL * BENJAMIN, on behalf of themselves * 7 and all others similarly situated, * * INDEX NO: 8 PLAINTIFFS, * 60767/2018 * 9 vs * * 10 HOULIHAN LAWRENCE INC., * * 11 DEFENDANT. * ---------------------------------X 12 13 *** CONFIDENTIAL *** 14 15 VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION 16 of 17 GEOFFREY BERRY 18 White Plains, New York 19 Thursday, September 16, 2021 20 21 22 Reported by: 23 Mary Agnes Drury, RPR, NYACR, CLR 24 JOB NO. 9602 25 215-341-3616 transcripts@everestdepo.com Everest Court Reporting LLC Page: 1 FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 04/22/2024 11:45 PM INDEX NO. 60767/2018 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1903 CONFIDENTIAL RECEIVED NYSCEF: 04/22/2024 Deposition of Geoffrey Berry Pamela Goldstein, et al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc. 1 GEOFFREY BERRY - CONFIDENTIAL 2 dollar volume factor into the assessment? 3 A. Well, there's two percentage points 4 for units and there is percentage point 5 increases for market share, and it is the 6 percentage of the whole; all companies, I think 7 at that time there were 250 companies, doing 8 business in White Plains in the Greater White 9 Plains area. 10 Q. And so then for a dual agent 11 transaction -- can market share be assessed 12 based on the total number of transaction sides? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And so then a dual agent transaction 15 Houlihan Lawrence gets credit for two 16 transaction sides, correct? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. And so then a dual agent transaction 19 would increase Houlihan Lawrence's market share 20 more than a single agent transaction, correct? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And so then one way to increase the 23 company market share is to increase the total 24 number of dual agent transactions brokered by 25 the firm, correct? 215-341-3616 transcripts@everestdepo.com Everest Court Reporting LLC Page: 128 FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 04/22/2024 11:45 PM INDEX NO. 60767/2018 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1903 CONFIDENTIAL RECEIVED NYSCEF: 04/22/2024 Deposition of Geoffrey Berry Pamela Goldstein, et al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc. 1 GEOFFREY BERRY - CONFIDENTIAL 2 A. It's the result of. 3 Q. The result of an increase in the 4 number of dual agent transactions is an 5 increase in the company's total market share, 6 correct? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. The next entry or office performance 9 metric is "Company Title Capture Rate." 10 Do you see that? 11 A. Yes, I do. 12 Q. And so your goal was to increase the 13 company title capture rate by 20 percent? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And what is the company title 16 capture rate? 17 A. Opportunities given to the in-house 18 title company. 19 Q. When you say the in-house title 20 company, you're referring to Thoroughbred? 21 A. Title. 22 Q. -- Title? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. So were you employed by Thoroughbred 25 Title? 215-341-3616 transcripts@everestdepo.com Everest Court Reporting LLC Page: 129 FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 04/22/2024 11:45 PM INDEX NO. 60767/2018 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1903 CONFIDENTIAL RECEIVED NYSCEF: 04/22/2024 Deposition of Geoffrey Berry Pamela Goldstein, et al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc. 1 GEOFFREY BERRY - CONFIDENTIAL 2 A. No. 3 Q. Was Thoroughbred Title a separate 4 company from Houlihan Lawrence? 5 A. I'm not sure. 6 Q. You but never received a paycheck 7 from Thoroughbred Title? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Are you familiar with a gentleman 10 named Steven Ferrara? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Who is Mr. Ferrara? 13 A. He was our title rep a long time ago 14 for a short period of time. 15 Q. He worked for Thoroughbred Title? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And so your job as a Houlihan 18 Lawrence office manager was to increase the 19 number of Houlihan Lawrence clients who 20 utilized the services of Thoroughbred Title; is 21 that right? 22 A. That was the attempt. 23 Q. And you also had a performance 24 metric for "Company Mortgage Leads." 25 Do you see that? 215-341-3616 transcripts@everestdepo.com Everest Court Reporting LLC Page: 130 FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 04/22/2024 11:45 PM INDEX NO. 60767/2018 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1903 CONFIDENTIAL RECEIVED NYSCEF: 04/22/2024 Deposition of Geoffrey Berry Pamela Goldstein, et al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc. 1 GEOFFREY BERRY - CONFIDENTIAL 2 It appears, she said it was amazing, 3 so I guess that would indicate she was 4 happy. I don't know. 5 BY MR. VEST: 6 Q. Do you recall discussions with 7 Ms. Dalton about in-house deals? 8 A. No. 9 Q. You don't recall one way or another 10 or you have a definitive recollection that you 11 never discussed in-house deals with Ms. Dalton? 12 A. I can't say I never discussed 13 in-house deals with her, but I cannot recall 14 any particular conversations with her. 15 Q. Just for clarity: So as you sit 16 here today, you can't recall one way or another 17 any details of any conversation you had with 18 Ms. Dalton about in-house deals? 19 A. I'm sure there has been a 20 conversation, but I am not aware of it. 21 Q. And why do you say you're sure there 22 have been such conversations? 23 A. It's part of my business talking 24 about transactions. I'm sure in the 25 conversations I've had with Debbie Dalton 215-341-3616 transcripts@everestdepo.com Everest Court Reporting LLC Page: 151 FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 04/22/2024 11:45 PM INDEX NO. 60767/2018 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1903 CONFIDENTIAL RECEIVED NYSCEF: 04/22/2024 Deposition of Geoffrey Berry Pamela Goldstein, et al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc. 1 GEOFFREY BERRY - CONFIDENTIAL 2 about transactions that she, as she mentioned 3 here in this note, that she's probably had a 4 conversation with me about it. 5 Q. Because you, yourself, took note of 6 the number of dual agent transactions brokered 7 by Houlihan Lawrence during a particular 8 reporting period, correct? 9 A. I'm sure I've said something along 10 the way about numerous in-house transactions. 11 Q. Meaning, that that's a positive 12 thing, correct? 13 A. Yeah. 14 Q. Because all things being equal, you, 15 as a White Plains office manager, would prefer 16 a dual agent transaction to a transaction 17 co-broked with one of Houlihan Lawrence's 18 rivals, right? 19 MR. MacGILL: Object to the form. 20 MR. VEST: You may answer. 21 THE WITNESS: Personally doesn't 22 really matter, but I'd like to see in-house 23 deals because, yes, it increases our market 24 share. 25 Q. And it has a corresponding decrease 215-341-3616 transcripts@everestdepo.com Everest Court Reporting LLC Page: 152 FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 04/22/2024 11:45 PM INDEX NO. 60767/2018 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1903 CONFIDENTIAL RECEIVED NYSCEF: 04/22/2024 Deposition of Geoffrey Berry Pamela Goldstein, et al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc. 1 GEOFFREY BERRY - CONFIDENTIAL 2 on the market share of Houlihan Lawrence's 3 competitors, correct? 4 A. Correct. 5 Q. And so if you were interested in 6 increasing Houlihan Lawrence's market share, 7 one way to do it is increase the number of dual 8 agent transactions. 9 A. That is not my primary focus, but 10 that is the result of. 11 MR. VEST: So we've been going for 12 about an hour; I think now is a good time 13 for a break. 14 VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is now 15 11:56 a.m., and we are going off the 16 record. 17 (Whereupon, proceedings recessed for 18 a lunch break and once again resumed.) 19 VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is now 20 12:44 p.m., we're back on the record. 21 BY MR. VEST: 22 Q. Mr. Berry, Ms. Dalton was your 23 direct supervisor throughout the 2011 to 2018 24 time period? 25 A. Yes. 215-341-3616 transcripts@everestdepo.com Everest Court Reporting LLC Page: 153 FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 04/22/2024 11:45 PM INDEX NO. 60767/2018 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1903 CONFIDENTIAL RECEIVED NYSCEF: 04/22/2024 Deposition of Geoffrey Berry Pamela Goldstein, et al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc. 1 GEOFFREY BERRY - CONFIDENTIAL 2 Q. So it's fair to say then that your 3 job depended at least to some extent on, you 4 know, staying or pleasing her; is that fair? 5 A. Pleasing her? I wouldn't 6 characterize by pleasing her. 7 Q. Well, your job performance -- or let 8 me start over. 9 Your job depended, at least to some 10 extent, that she remained happy with your 11 performance? 12 A. Not only Debbie Dalton, but all of 13 corporate. 14 Q. And by corporate, you mean to 15 include Chris and Stephen Meyers? 16 A. The owners of the company, yes. 17 Q. And so what we were looking at 18 earlier as Exhibit 48, which perhaps you can 19 look at. Exhibit 48 is an example of 20 Ms. Dalton expressing her pleasure with your 21 performance as the manager of the White Plains 22 branch office, correct? 23 A. I would assume that. 24 Q. And you understood this to be an 25 encouragement by Ms. Dalton to continue to 215-341-3616 transcripts@everestdepo.com Everest Court Reporting LLC Page: 154 FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 04/22/2024 11:45 PM INDEX NO. 60767/2018 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1903 CONFIDENTIAL RECEIVED NYSCEF: 04/22/2024 Deposition of Geoffrey Berry Pamela Goldstein, et al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc. 1 GEOFFREY BERRY - CONFIDENTIAL 2 agents to represent the clients and put this 3 deal together and go to contract and have a 4 closing on behalf of their clients. 5 Q. So is your answer that it does not 6 have the ability to tempt an agent to fail to 7 make required agency disclosure? 8 A. I can't answer on behalf of a 9 hundred agents. 10 Q. Well, you have answered on behalf of 11 all hundred agents with respect to your 12 testimony that it had no impact on their 13 conduct? 14 A. It is my belief that it has no 15 impact. 16 Q. So I want you to -- probe your same 17 belief as to whether it has the potential to 18 tempt an Houlihan Lawrence sales agent to fail 19 to make the proper agency disclosures? 20 A. It could. 21 Q. And it could also tempt an HL sales 22 agent to water down the agency disclosure so 23 that, you know, they don't set off an alarm for 24 a consumer; is that fair? 25 A. No, I disagree. 215-341-3616 transcripts@everestdepo.com Everest Court Reporting LLC Page: 177 FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 04/22/2024 11:45 PM INDEX NO. 60767/2018 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1903 CONFIDENTIAL RECEIVED NYSCEF: 04/22/2024 Deposition of Geoffrey Berry Pamela Goldstein, et al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc. 1 GEOFFREY BERRY - CONFIDENTIAL 2 Q. The in-house bonus could tempt a 3 Houlihan Lawrence sales agent to steer clients 4 towards Houlihan Lawrence listings, would you 5 agree with that? 6 A. No, I disagree. 7 Q. You think it has no ability to tempt 8 a Houlihan Lawrence sales agent to steer 9 clients to Houlihan Lawrence listings? 10 A. Exactly. 11 Q. You think it has any ability to 12 tempt a Houlihan Lawrence sales agent to favor 13 a Houlihan Lawrence listing over a transaction 14 with an outside firm? 15 A. No. 16 Q. No impact whatsoever? 17 A. No. The sellers are deciding what 18 is the best interest of themselves. 19 Q. So in your view, sellers do not rely 20 on the guidance of their sales agents? 21 A. I'm sure they do. 22 Q. You're sure they do, because sales 23 agents are much more knowledgeable about the 24 real estate transaction experience, correct? 25 A. Yes. The sellers are not stupid; 215-341-3616 transcripts@everestdepo.com Everest Court Reporting LLC Page: 178 FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 04/22/2024 11:45 PM INDEX NO. 60767/2018 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1903 CONFIDENTIAL RECEIVED NYSCEF: 04/22/2024 Deposition of Geoffrey Berry Pamela Goldstein, et al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc. 1 GEOFFREY BERRY - CONFIDENTIAL 2 they're going to take the best offer, with the 3 best terms and the best conditions and satisfy 4 their best interest. 5 Q. And so your testimony is that a 6 sales agent has no ability to influence a 7 seller's decision as to which offer to accept? 8 A. I didn't say that. 9 Q. What influence does a sales agent 10 have on a seller's decision to accept an offer? 11 A. I can give you an example where an 12 agent might say, okay, you have two offers; one 13 is 500 and one is 520,000. The higher offer is 14 three-percent down, 97 percent financing. The 15 lower offer is all cash. My suggestion to you: 16 It would be in your best interest to take the 17 all cash offer, because these are the downfalls 18 of what could happen if you are trying to 19 secure the 97 percent financing. 20 Q. So the seller's agent by virtue of 21 their experience and repeat participation in 22 the real estate market positions them to guide 23 their clients in the assessment of the offers 24 that the seller receives, correct? 25 A. Yes. 215-341-3616 transcripts@everestdepo.com Everest Court Reporting LLC Page: 179 FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 04/22/2024 11:45 PM INDEX NO. 60767/2018 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1903 CONFIDENTIAL RECEIVED NYSCEF: 04/22/2024 Deposition of Geoffrey Berry Pamela Goldstein, et al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc. 1 GEOFFREY BERRY - CONFIDENTIAL 2 Q. And given that sellers hire sales 3 agents because of their experience and 4 knowledge of the industry, sellers typically 5 rely on the guidance they receive from the 6 sales agents, correct? 7 A. I hope so. Otherwise, they should 8 sell on their own, and save the money. 9 Q. I'll show you now what we'll mark as 10 plaintiff's Exhibit 49? 11 (Whereupon, Plaintiffs Exhibit 49, 12 Berry E-mail Dated 1/3/12, Bates Stamped 13 HL00142004 to '005, 2-Pages was marked for 14 identification.) 15 BY MR. VEST: 16 Q. Mr. Berry, I'll give you an 17 opportunity to read the substance, but I want 18 to identify it by the date and senders on the 19 first instance. 20 Do you have a copy of Plaintiffs' 21 Exhibit 49 in front you? 22 A. Yes, I do. 23 Q. And does this appear to be a 24 January 3rd, 2012, e-mail from yourself to 25 Cindy Landis? 215-341-3616 transcripts@everestdepo.com Everest Court Reporting LLC Page: 180 FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 04/22/2024 11:45 PM INDEX NO. 60767/2018 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1903 CONFIDENTIAL RECEIVED NYSCEF: 04/22/2024 Deposition of Geoffrey Berry Pamela Goldstein, et al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc. 1 GEOFFREY BERRY - CONFIDENTIAL 2 A. Um-huh, yes. 3 Q. And you understand Cynthia Landis is 4 and was at this time, the manager of the 5 Bronxville office? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. Before I proceed to ask you 8 questions about the body of the e-mail, if 9 you'd like, I'll give you an opportunity to 10 review it? 11 A. Oh, absolutely. This was nine years 12 ago, so I would like to. 13 Q. Please take an opportunity. 14 (Witness peruses document.) 15 BY MR. VEST: 16 Q. Forgive me, but for the record, the 17 e-mail -- 18 A. On the other side. 19 Q. -- begins with a January 3rd, 2012, 20 e-mail from Ms. Landis to Mr. Berry that 21 appears on page -- on the backside and page two 22 of the document. 23 Mr. Berry, have you had an 24 opportunity to review Plaintiffs' Exhibit 49? 25 A. I'll be done in a second. 215-341-3616 transcripts@everestdepo.com Everest Court Reporting LLC Page: 181 FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 04/22/2024 11:45 PM INDEX NO. 60767/2018 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1903 CONFIDENTIAL RECEIVED NYSCEF: 04/22/2024 Deposition of Geoffrey Berry Pamela Goldstein, et al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc. 1 GEOFFREY BERRY - CONFIDENTIAL 2 correct? 3 A. All new agents that are on a 50/50 4 split are eligible for the in-house bonus. 5 Q. And the vast majority of the agents 6 in the White Plains office are on a 50/50 7 split? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Would you say a majority of the 10 agents are on a 50/50 split? 11 A. No. Actively, there are two agents 12 on a 50/50 split presently. 13 Q. And even if an agent is not on a 14 50/50 split, they may still be eligible for an 15 in-house bonus, correct? 16 A. Each agent is hired and a 17 compensation package is offered, and there are 18 times where even if an agent was hired at a 60 19 or 65 percent split; in order to get them on 20 board with us, we would offer them five percent 21 in-house bonus. 22 Q. Now, you've indicated at least way 23 back in 2004, you took the position at Houlihan 24 Lawrence in part because it involved less agent 25 recruitment than your prior position; is that 215-341-3616 transcripts@everestdepo.com Everest Court Reporting LLC Page: 185 FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 04/22/2024 11:45 PM INDEX NO. 60767/2018 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1903 CONFIDENTIAL RECEIVED NYSCEF: 04/22/2024 Deposition of Geoffrey Berry Pamela Goldstein, et al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc. 1 GEOFFREY BERRY - CONFIDENTIAL 2 right? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Oh, excuse me. 5 A. Less time dedicated to formal 6 recruiting activities. 7 Q. Okay. You had nevertheless, 8 throughout your tenure at Houlihan Lawrence, 9 continued to engage in agent recruitment 10 activities, correct? 11 A. Absolutely. 12 Q. That's remained an important part of 13 your job throughout your tenure? 14 A. And today. 15 Q. And when you are -- as part of your 16 agent recruitment efforts, you often point to 17 the in-house bonus as one, among other reasons, 18 an agent should join Houlihan Lawrence, 19 correct? 20 A. Yes. 21 (Whereupon, Plaintiffs Exhibit 50, 22 Berry E-mail Dated 11/22/17, Bates Stamped 23 HL00089767 to '774, 8-Pages was marked for 24 identification.) 25 BY MR. VEST: 215-341-3616 transcripts@everestdepo.com Everest Court Reporting LLC Page: 186 FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 04/22/2024 11:45 PM INDEX NO. 60767/2018 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1903 CONFIDENTIAL RECEIVED NYSCEF: 04/22/2024 Deposition of Geoffrey Berry Pamela Goldstein, et al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc. 1 GEOFFREY BERRY - CONFIDENTIAL 2 Q. I'll show you what we'll mark as 3 Plaintiffs' Exhibit 50. 4 Mr. Berry, do you have a copy of 5 Plaintiffs' Exhibit 50 in front of you? 6 A. Yes, I do. 7 Q. This appears to be a series of 8 e-mails between yourself and Tina Dunne, some 9 of which -- or it looks like most of which 10 Ms. Noreli is a CC recipient on? 11 A. Yes, I see that. 12 Q. I want to direct you to your e-mail 13 at the very first page; do you see that, a 14 November 22nd, 2017, e-mail to Tina Dunne? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Tina Dunne worked at Houlihan 17 Lawrence's corporate headquarters? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. And is she involved in payroll 20 processing or if you would -- let me withdraw 21 that and ask you to describe her function? 22 A. She works in the accounting 23 department. 24 Q. And so what you're doing here in 25 this first e-mail is sending Ms. Dunne, a 215-341-3616 transcripts@everestdepo.com Everest Court Reporting LLC Page: 187 FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 04/22/2024 11:45 PM INDEX NO. 60767/2018 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1903 CONFIDENTIAL RECEIVED NYSCEF: 04/22/2024 Deposition of Geoffrey Berry Pamela Goldstein, et al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc. 1 GEOFFREY BERRY - CONFIDENTIAL 2 A. I am. Go ahead. 3 MR. VEST: So I will show you now 4 what we'll mark as Plaintiffs' Exhibit 52. 5 (Whereupon, Plaintiffs Exhibit 52, 6 Okamoto E-mail Dated 1/27/13, Bates Stamped 7 HL00089999 to '005, 7-Pages was marked for 8 identification.) 9 BY MR. VEST: 10 Q. Mr. Berry, do you have a copy of 11 Plaintiffs' Exhibit 52 in front of you? 12 A. I do. 13 Q. And do you see if you turn to the 14 bottom of HL90003, that this is a -- what 15 begins as an e-mail from Mr. Okamoto to Aaron 16 Velez, and then continues with an exchange of 17 e-mails first between yourself and Mr. Velez, 18 and then concludes with an e-mail between 19 yourself and Mr. Okamoto. 20 Do you see that? 21 A. I see the to and froms, yes. 22 Q. Okay. And you see the subject of 23 the e-mail is 3 Fernwood. 24 Do you see that? 25 A. Yes, I do. 215-341-3616 transcripts@everestdepo.com Everest Court Reporting LLC Page: 207 FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 04/22/2024 11:45 PM INDEX NO. 60767/2018 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1903 CONFIDENTIAL RECEIVED NYSCEF: 04/22/2024 Deposition of Geoffrey Berry Pamela Goldstein, et al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc. 1 GEOFFREY BERRY - CONFIDENTIAL 2 Q. Do you have any reason to doubt that 3 you sent and received these e-mails? 4 A. I see my name there, so I assume I 5 received them. 6 Q. I would ask you to look at the 7 bottom of the second page of the document, 8 HL90000? 9 A. 90000? 10 Q. Yes. So it's the second page of the 11 document from the front. 12 A. Okay. 13 Q. And do you see that the e-mail at 14 the bottom of the page is a January 27th e-mail 15 from yourself to Aaron Velez with a copy to 16 Mr. Okamoto? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. And specifically, I want to direct 19 your attention to the sentence that appears 20 right before the last sentence. 21 And, sir, do you see there that you 22 say "Believe me, what manager doesn't want an 23 in-house deal and what agent doesn't want an 24 in-house bonus." 25 Do you see that? 215-341-3616 transcripts@everestdepo.com Everest Court Reporting LLC Page: 208 FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 04/22/2024 11:45 PM INDEX NO. 60767/2018 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1903 CONFIDENTIAL RECEIVED NYSCEF: 04/22/2024 Deposition of Geoffrey Berry Pamela Goldstein, et al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc. 1 GEOFFREY BERRY - CONFIDENTIAL 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And that remains your view today, 4 correct? 5 A. Sure. 6 Q. Because, you know, any manager would 7 want an in-house deal, because it increases 8 gross commission income? 9 A. Right, we discussed that already. 10 Q. And any manager would want an 11 in-house deal because it increases the company 12 market share, correct? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And likewise, any agent would want 15 an in-house bonus, because it increases their 16 payout on a transaction, correct? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. Do you recall sending this e-mail? 19 A. First of all, I'd have to read the 20 whole e-mail to recall; it's that long ago. 21 Mark has no longer worked for me -- it must be 22 seven years he hasn't worked for me. 23 So if you want, we'll take the time 24 to read the document, and then I can speak from 25 hopefully generating memory about this 215-341-3616 transcripts@everestdepo.com Everest Court Reporting LLC Page: 209 FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 04/22/2024 11:45 PM INDEX NO. 60767/2018 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1903 CONFIDENTIAL RECEIVED NYSCEF: 04/22/2024 Deposition of Geoffrey Berry Pamela Goldstein, et al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc. 1 GEOFFREY BERRY - CONFIDENTIAL 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And, you know, we talked about that 4 you would, at times, rely on Ms. Chrystal. Did 5 you also consult Mr. Arlt on agency disclosure 6 matters? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Did you have an opportunity to work 9 with Mr. Arlt over the course of your tenure? 10 A. What do you mean work with? 11 Q. In any way. 12 A. We were both managers at Houlihan 13 Lawrence. 14 Q. So did you have interactions with 15 Mr. Arlt over of the course of the years? 16 A. Briefly, if it involved a 17 transaction where both of our offices were on; 18 if there was any complications, we would 19 discuss them. 20 Q. And did you develop sort of an 21 understanding of Mr. Arlt's reputation, at 22 least among managers, within Houlihan Lawrence? 23 A. No, I had no opinion. 24 Q. Did you have any understanding as 25 Ms. Dalton's view of Mr. Arlt? 215-341-3616 transcripts@everestdepo.com Everest Court Reporting LLC Page: 211 FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 04/22/2024 11:45 PM INDEX NO. 60767/2018 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1903 CONFIDENTIAL RECEIVED NYSCEF: 04/22/2024 Deposition of Geoffrey Berry Pamela Goldstein, et al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc. 1 GEOFFREY BERRY - CONFIDENTIAL 2 A. Absolutely not. 3 Q. Have you had any discussions with 4 Ms. Dalton about the in-house bonus? 5 A. Not that I recall. 6 Q. Do you recall any discussions with 7 Chris Meyers about the in-house bonus? 8 A. Not that I recall. 9 Q. Do you recall any discussions with 10 Stephen Meyers about the in-house bonus? 11 A. Not that I recall. 12 Q. Do you recall any discussions with 13 any of your sales agents about the in-house 14 bonus? 15 A. Well, of course, I'd have 16 discussions. When I'm hiring every agent, I'm 17 discussing the in-house bonus. 18 Q. And so you're just generally 19 recalling that it was a part of your usual 20 custom and practice to discuss the in-house 21 bonus with incoming agents? 22 A. It's listed on the Welcome to 23 Houlihan Lawrence document. 24 Q. And the Welcome to Houlihan Lawrence 25 document is a document that highlights what you 215-341-3616 transcripts@everestdepo.com Everest Court Reporting LLC Page: 212 FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 04/22/2024 11:45 PM INDEX NO. 60767/2018 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1903 CONFIDENTIAL RECEIVED NYSCEF: 04/22/2024 Deposition of Geoffrey Berry Pamela Goldstein, et al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc. 1 GEOFFREY BERRY - CONFIDENTIAL 2 regard as some of the advantages of working 3 with Houlihan Lawrence? 4 A. Correct. 5 Q. And that's a document that it was 6 your usual and custom and practice throughout 7 2011 to 2018 to present to prospective sales 8 agents to recruit them to Houlihan Lawrence. 9 Correct? 10 A. Not all agents. 11 Q. Who would you not present it to? 12 A. I would give that to pretty much 13 experienced agents; new agents are green, 14 they're starting from the beginning. 15 Q. Meaning, they wouldn't necessarily 16 be able to appreciate some of the advantages 17 that you're highlighting? 18 A. Correct. 19 Q. But with respect to those agents, 20 one of the things that you would point out to 21 them and if they could understand, would be 22 their eligibility for the in-house bonus? 23 A. Correct. 24 Q. And so part of the reason you would 25 point it out to those green agents is to make 215-341-3616 transcripts@everestdepo.com Everest Court Reporting LLC Page: 213 FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 04/22/2024 11:45 PM INDEX NO. 60767/2018 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1903 CONFIDENTIAL RECEIVED NYSCEF: 04/22/2024 Deposition of Geoffrey Berry Pamela Goldstein, et al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc. 1 GEOFFREY BERRY - CONFIDENTIAL 2 them aware that they can make more money 3 working with Houlihan Lawrence, than they could 4 with working with one of its competitors; is 5 that right? 6 A. That wasn't the intent talking about 7 the in-house bonus, it was just one of the 8 perks that come with working with Houlihan 9 Lawrence. 10 Q. Did -- aside from, you know, your 11 recollections of your usual custom and practice 12 about discussing the in-house bonus with new 13 agents, do you recall any specific discussions 14 about the in-house bonus with sales agents? 15 A. Not really. 16 Q. Did a Houlihan Lawrence sales agent 17 ever express any concern about the in-house 18 bonus to you? 19 A. I'm sure they have. I don't recall 20 specifically. 21 Q. What makes you certain that they 22 had? 23 A. Either they didn't understand how 24 the bonus worked, or they weren't sure if they 25 were entitled to it or not. 215-341-3616 transcripts@everestdepo.com Everest Court Reporting LLC Page: 214 FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 04/22/2024 11:45 PM INDEX NO. 60767/2018 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1903 CONFIDENTIAL RECEIVED NYSCEF: 04/22/2024 Deposition of Geoffrey Berry Pamela Goldstein, et al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc. 1 GEOFFREY BERRY - CONFIDENTIAL 2 Q. Do you recall any discussions with 3 any Houlihan Lawrence sales agents where they 4 raised the question about the appropriateness 5 or the legality of the in-house bonus? 6 A. No. 7 Q. Have you -- do you recall -- have 8 you had any discussions with anyone affiliated 9 with Houlihan Lawrence about whether it was 10 appropriate for Houlihan Lawrence to pay an 11 in-house bonus? 12 A. No. 13 Q. And it's not your -- you had not 14 trained or instructed Houlihan Lawrence sales 15 agents to disclose the in-house bonus to 16 Houlihan Lawrence clients, correct? 17 A. I don't think it's any of their 18 business. 19 Q. Right. And so you would not 20 instruct or train the Houlihan Lawrence sales 21 agents under your supervision to disclose the 22 in-house bonus to Houlihan Lawrence clients, 23 correct? 24 A. Correct. 25 Q. And, sir, you as an office manager 215-341-3616 transcripts@everestdepo.com Everest Court Reporting LLC Page: 215 FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 04/22/2024 11:45 PM INDEX NO. 60767/2018 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1903 CONFIDENTIAL RECEIVED NYSCEF: 04/22/2024 Deposition of Geoffrey Berry Pamela Goldstein, et al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc. 1 GEOFFREY BERRY - CONFIDENTIAL 2 have never been instructed by anyone at 3 Houlihan Lawrence