Preview
FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 03/11/2024 11:36 AM INDEX NO. 60767/2018
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1788 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 03/11/2024
HL EXHIBIT 33
CHRYSTAL DEPOSITION TRANSCRIPT AUGUST 25,
2021
FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 03/11/2024 11:36 AM INDEX NO. 60767/2018
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1788 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 03/11/2024
"Toni"
Deposi2ion of Annette Chrystal Pamela Goldstein, et. al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc.
1
2 SUPREME COURT OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK
3 COUNTY OF WESTCHESTER
4 ---------------------------------X *
*
5 PAMELA ELLYN & TONY *
GOLDSTEIN,
BERK as Administrators of the *
6 Estate of Winifred and PAUL *
Berk,
on behalf of themselves *
BENJAMIN,
7 and all others *
similarly situated,
* INDEX NO:
8 * 60767/2018
PLAINTIFFS,
*
9 vs *
*
10 HOULIHAN LAWRENCE *
INC,
*
11 DEFENDANT. *
_________________________________Ç
12
13
14 VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION
15 of
16 ANNETTE "TONI" CHRYSTAL
17 White New York
Plains,
18 August 2021
Wednesday, 25,
19
2 O
2 1
2 2
Reported by:
2 3
Mary Agnes Drury, RPR, NYACR, CLR
2 4
JOB NO. 9214
25
215-341-3616 transcripts@everestdepo.com
Everest Court Reporting LLC Page: 1 (1)
FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 03/11/2024 11:36 AM INDEX NO. 60767/2018
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1788 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 03/11/2024
"Toni"
Deposition of Annette Chrystal Pamela Goldstein, et. al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc.
1
2
3
4 August 2021
25,
5 9:12 a.m.
6
7
8 VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION of ANNETTE
9 "TONI" held at
CHRYSTAL, Regus Conference
10 50 Main White New
Center, Street, Plains,
11 before Agnes
York, Mary Drury, RPR, NYACR,
12 a Public of the States of New
CLR, Notary
13 York and New Jersey.
14
15
16
17
18
19
2 0
2 1
2 2
2 3
2 4
2 5
215-341-3616 transcripts@everestdepo.com
Everest Court Reporting LLC Page: 2 (2)
FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 03/11/2024 11:36 AM INDEX NO. 60767/2018
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1788 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 03/11/2024
"Toni"
Deposi2ion of Annette Chrystal Pamela Goldstein, et. al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc.
1
2 A P P E A R A N C E S:
3
4 MINTZ LEVIN COHN FERRIS
5 GLOVSKY and POPEO PC
6 Attorneys for Plaintiffs
7 666 Third Avenue
8 Chrysler Center
9 New New York 10017
York,
10 (212) 692-6718
11 BY: JEREMY C. ESQ.
VEST,
12 JVest@Mintz.com
13
14 MacGill PC
15 Attorneys for Defendant
16 55 Monument Circle
17 Suite 1200C
18 Indiana 46204
Indianapolis,
19 (317) 961-5085
20 BY: ROBERT D. ESQ.
MacGILL,
21 MATTHEW T. ESQ. (Via Phone)
CIULLA,
22 Robert.MacGill@MacGillLaw.com
23 Matthew.Ciulla@MacGillLaw.com
2 4
2 5
215-341-3616 transcripts@everestdepo.com
Everest Court Reporting LLC Page: 3 (3)
FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 03/11/2024 11:36 AM INDEX NO. 60767/2018
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1788 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 03/11/2024
"Toni"
Deposition of Annette Chrystal Pamela Goldstein, et. al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc.
Page 226 Page 228
¹ "TONI" ¹ "TONI"
ANNETTE CHRYSTAL ANNETTE CHRYSTAL
2 2
A. I would say an authority on many A. Yes.
3 3
things. Q. And to be informed, sufficient for
4 4
Q. Did you ever hear Mr. Sumber use the purposes of providing informed written consent
5 5
term true dual agency? to dual agency, the client must fully
6 6
A. I'm not sure. It's years ago, I understand the risks and downsides and
7 7
don't know. alternatives to dual agency?
* -- before *
Q. Now, as we discussed when MR. MacGILL: Object to the form.
9 9
we took the break, true dual agency refers to Q. You may answer.
¹° ¹°
the agency relationship identified on MR. JONES: Are you able to answer?
¹¹ Plaintiffs' ¹¹
Exhibit 9 as dual agent, correct? Do you need the question read back?
¹² 12
A. Correct. THE WITNESS: Yeah.
¹³ ¹³
Q. And true dual agency is akin to an (Whereupon, the last question was
¹4 ¹4
agent marrying two people, is that a fair read back.)
¹5 ¹5
description? MR. JONES: Objection to the form.
¹6 ¹6
MR. JONES: Objection. Objection. And to the extent that it calls for any
¹7 ¹7
MR. MacGILL: You can answer. speculation about what another person is in
¹ª ¹ª
THE WITNESS: Well, I'd say no, their mind as to understanding, I object as
¹9 ¹9
because I'm not marrying them. well.
2° 2°
Q. Have you, in any of your training Q. You may answer.
2¹ 2¹
materials, ever referred to true dual agency as A. I don't know the answer to that. I
22 22
like marrying two people? don't know what they're thinking, so...
23 23
A. I don't recall. Q. Well, what does it mean for a
24 24
Q. Okay. But it's possible? consumer to be informed?
25 25
A. T don't recaR A. Ts to have a conversation about the
Page 227 Page 229
1 "TONI" ¹ "TONI"
ANNETTE CHRYSTAL ANNETTE CHRYSTAL
2 2
Q. And another term for marrying two relationship.
3 3
people is bigamy, right? Q. So is it sufficient for the sales
4 4
MR. JONES: Objection. agent to simply explain dual agency to the
5
Q. Are you familiar with that term? client?
6
MR. JONES: Objection. MR. MacGILL: Object to the form.
7
THE WITNESS: (No verbal response MR. JONES: Object to the form. In
was given.) order to do what?
9
Q. Do you instruct Houlihan Lawrence Q. Let me ask it this way: Does the
¹° 1°
sales agents to advise clients that true dual sales agent have any obligation to assess the
¹¹ ¹¹
agency is like marrying two people? client's understanding about dual agency before
¹² ¹²
A. No. acting as a dual agent?
¹³ ¹³
Q. When making agency disclosures to MR. MacGILL: Object to the form.
¹4 14
clients, is the goal to get the client to the THE WITNESS: If they sign the form,
¹5 ¹5
same level of understanding about dual agency I assume that they understand; that's why
¹6 ¹6
as the agent themselves has? they sign the form.
¹7 17
A. I don't know that. Q. Okay. And so you think it's
¹ª 18
Q. Well, you do recognize that an agent appropriate to make the assumption that a
¹9 ¹9
has an obligation to obtain the informed client understands dual agency sufficient to
2° 2°
written consent of a client before acting as a provide the informed written consent, if they
2¹ 21
dual agent, correct? sign the disclosure form?
22 22
MR. MacGILL: Object to the form. A. I wouldn't assume anything, first of
23 23
THE WITNESS: Yes. all.
24 24
Q. That's your understanding of New Q. Okay. I understood you to say that
25 correct9 25
York T aw, you did assume that.
215-341-3616 transcr pts@everestdepo.com
Everest Court Reporting LLC Page: 61 (226 - 229)
FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 03/11/2024 11:36 AM INDEX NO. 60767/2018
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1788 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 03/11/2024
"Toni"
Deposition of Annette Chrystal Pamela Goldstein, et. al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc.
Page 230 Page 232
¹ "TONI" 1 "TONI"
ANNETTE CHRYSTAL ANNETTE CHRYSTAL
2 "assume." 2
A. I didn't say relationship. I always begin as a seller
3 3
Q. What then do you do to ensure that a client if I'm getting a listing. If I have a
4 4
client, in fact, is informed about dual agency buyer, it's the other way around, I have a
5 5
before acting as a dual agent? buyer.
6 6
A. I fully explain what it means to be So I never go into straight dual
7 7
a dual agent, and it depends on dual or dual agency, I have a client first. And then I
8 8
with designation, and my fiduciary duties, and explain informed advanced consent to the
9 9
which of my fiduciary duties is compromised; I client.
¹° ¹°
explain that. And then if I become in the realm of
¹¹ ¹¹
Q. And do you ask them any questions to dual agency, then I would go back to the form
¹² ¹²
test their understanding? and discuss, we've discussed this when we sat
¹³ 13
A. Do you understand what I just said? down and you became my client, and now we're in
¹4 14
Q. Okay. the realm of a dual agent situation, and we
¹5 ¹5
]|j hffjj[ý fÆj need a few form for that, so I am no longer
16
working as your seller agent or your buyer
¹7
] agent, I'm now either the dual agent, which
18
would be one person, or the dual with
¹9
designation, which may be someone from my
2° 2°
Q. Have you ever asked a question office, or someone from Armonk, or Millbrook,
2¹ 2¹
beyond, do you understand? or Cold Springs.
22 22
A. Most likely, yes. If it's a Houlihan Lawrence agent
23 23
Q. Can you give us an example? listing, it's a dual agency, and it could be an
24 24
A. No, not off the top of my head. agent from anyone in our offices.
25 25
Q. How many times have yon explained 0. So let's take the situation where
Page 231 Page 233
¹ "TONI" ¹ "TONI"
ANNETTE CHRYSTAL ANNETTE CHRYSTAL
² 2
this form in the course of your career? you're a listing agent working with a seller
3 3
A. Oh, many times. whom you're hoping to sign up as a seller
4 4
Q. Thousands? client and get the listing.
5 5
A. I don't know. I'm not going to give I understand you to say that you
6 6
it a number. I don't know. would begin by explaining the seller's agent
7
Q. You're not even comfortable saying relationship?
* *
hundreds? A. Correct.
9 9
A. I'm not comfortable saying any Q. And you would begin there, because
¹° ¹°
number, no. that's the relationship that you would have
¹¹ ¹¹
Q. Okay. But this is a form and these with the client, at least at the outset?
¹² 12
are relationships that you have to explain to A. Correct.
¹³ -- ¹³
every client Q. But because the possibility exists
¹4 ¹4
A. Yes. that that relationship could change and you
¹5 -- ¹5
Q. in connection with every could enter the realm of dual agency, even at
¹6 ¹6
transaction; is that fair? the outset of the relationship, you would also
¹7 ¹7
A. That's fair. go on to explain both the dual agent and the
¹ª ¹ª
Q. So if you would, just looking at dual agent with designated sales agents
¹9 Plaintiffs' ¹9
Exhibit 9, if you would, tell us relationship?
2° 2°
what it is that you tell your clients about the A. I would explain the informed advance
²¹
Preview
FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 03/11/2024 11:36 AM INDEX NO. 60767/2018 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1788 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 03/11/2024 HL EXHIBIT 33 CHRYSTAL DEPOSITION TRANSCRIPT AUGUST 25, 2021 FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 03/11/2024 11:36 AM INDEX NO. 60767/2018 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1788 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 03/11/2024 "Toni" Deposi2ion of Annette Chrystal Pamela Goldstein, et. al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc. 1 2 SUPREME COURT OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK 3 COUNTY OF WESTCHESTER 4 ---------------------------------X * * 5 PAMELA ELLYN & TONY * GOLDSTEIN, BERK as Administrators of the * 6 Estate of Winifred and PAUL * Berk, on behalf of themselves * BENJAMIN, 7 and all others * similarly situated, * INDEX NO: 8 * 60767/2018 PLAINTIFFS, * 9 vs * * 10 HOULIHAN LAWRENCE * INC, * 11 DEFENDANT. * _________________________________Ç 12 13 14 VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION 15 of 16 ANNETTE "TONI" CHRYSTAL 17 White New York Plains, 18 August 2021 Wednesday, 25, 19 2 O 2 1 2 2 Reported by: 2 3 Mary Agnes Drury, RPR, NYACR, CLR 2 4 JOB NO. 9214 25 215-341-3616 transcripts@everestdepo.com Everest Court Reporting LLC Page: 1 (1) FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 03/11/2024 11:36 AM INDEX NO. 60767/2018 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1788 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 03/11/2024 "Toni" Deposition of Annette Chrystal Pamela Goldstein, et. al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc. 1 2 3 4 August 2021 25, 5 9:12 a.m. 6 7 8 VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION of ANNETTE 9 "TONI" held at CHRYSTAL, Regus Conference 10 50 Main White New Center, Street, Plains, 11 before Agnes York, Mary Drury, RPR, NYACR, 12 a Public of the States of New CLR, Notary 13 York and New Jersey. 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 0 2 1 2 2 2 3 2 4 2 5 215-341-3616 transcripts@everestdepo.com Everest Court Reporting LLC Page: 2 (2) FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 03/11/2024 11:36 AM INDEX NO. 60767/2018 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1788 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 03/11/2024 "Toni" Deposi2ion of Annette Chrystal Pamela Goldstein, et. al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc. 1 2 A P P E A R A N C E S: 3 4 MINTZ LEVIN COHN FERRIS 5 GLOVSKY and POPEO PC 6 Attorneys for Plaintiffs 7 666 Third Avenue 8 Chrysler Center 9 New New York 10017 York, 10 (212) 692-6718 11 BY: JEREMY C. ESQ. VEST, 12 JVest@Mintz.com 13 14 MacGill PC 15 Attorneys for Defendant 16 55 Monument Circle 17 Suite 1200C 18 Indiana 46204 Indianapolis, 19 (317) 961-5085 20 BY: ROBERT D. ESQ. MacGILL, 21 MATTHEW T. ESQ. (Via Phone) CIULLA, 22 Robert.MacGill@MacGillLaw.com 23 Matthew.Ciulla@MacGillLaw.com 2 4 2 5 215-341-3616 transcripts@everestdepo.com Everest Court Reporting LLC Page: 3 (3) FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 03/11/2024 11:36 AM INDEX NO. 60767/2018 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1788 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 03/11/2024 "Toni" Deposition of Annette Chrystal Pamela Goldstein, et. al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc. Page 226 Page 228 ¹ "TONI" ¹ "TONI" ANNETTE CHRYSTAL ANNETTE CHRYSTAL 2 2 A. I would say an authority on many A. Yes. 3 3 things. Q. And to be informed, sufficient for 4 4 Q. Did you ever hear Mr. Sumber use the purposes of providing informed written consent 5 5 term true dual agency? to dual agency, the client must fully 6 6 A. I'm not sure. It's years ago, I understand the risks and downsides and 7 7 don't know. alternatives to dual agency? * -- before * Q. Now, as we discussed when MR. MacGILL: Object to the form. 9 9 we took the break, true dual agency refers to Q. You may answer. ¹° ¹° the agency relationship identified on MR. JONES: Are you able to answer? ¹¹ Plaintiffs' ¹¹ Exhibit 9 as dual agent, correct? Do you need the question read back? ¹² 12 A. Correct. THE WITNESS: Yeah. ¹³ ¹³ Q. And true dual agency is akin to an (Whereupon, the last question was ¹4 ¹4 agent marrying two people, is that a fair read back.) ¹5 ¹5 description? MR. JONES: Objection to the form. ¹6 ¹6 MR. JONES: Objection. Objection. And to the extent that it calls for any ¹7 ¹7 MR. MacGILL: You can answer. speculation about what another person is in ¹ª ¹ª THE WITNESS: Well, I'd say no, their mind as to understanding, I object as ¹9 ¹9 because I'm not marrying them. well. 2° 2° Q. Have you, in any of your training Q. You may answer. 2¹ 2¹ materials, ever referred to true dual agency as A. I don't know the answer to that. I 22 22 like marrying two people? don't know what they're thinking, so... 23 23 A. I don't recall. Q. Well, what does it mean for a 24 24 Q. Okay. But it's possible? consumer to be informed? 25 25 A. T don't recaR A. Ts to have a conversation about the Page 227 Page 229 1 "TONI" ¹ "TONI" ANNETTE CHRYSTAL ANNETTE CHRYSTAL 2 2 Q. And another term for marrying two relationship. 3 3 people is bigamy, right? Q. So is it sufficient for the sales 4 4 MR. JONES: Objection. agent to simply explain dual agency to the 5 Q. Are you familiar with that term? client? 6 MR. JONES: Objection. MR. MacGILL: Object to the form. 7 THE WITNESS: (No verbal response MR. JONES: Object to the form. In was given.) order to do what? 9 Q. Do you instruct Houlihan Lawrence Q. Let me ask it this way: Does the ¹° 1° sales agents to advise clients that true dual sales agent have any obligation to assess the ¹¹ ¹¹ agency is like marrying two people? client's understanding about dual agency before ¹² ¹² A. No. acting as a dual agent? ¹³ ¹³ Q. When making agency disclosures to MR. MacGILL: Object to the form. ¹4 14 clients, is the goal to get the client to the THE WITNESS: If they sign the form, ¹5 ¹5 same level of understanding about dual agency I assume that they understand; that's why ¹6 ¹6 as the agent themselves has? they sign the form. ¹7 17 A. I don't know that. Q. Okay. And so you think it's ¹ª 18 Q. Well, you do recognize that an agent appropriate to make the assumption that a ¹9 ¹9 has an obligation to obtain the informed client understands dual agency sufficient to 2° 2° written consent of a client before acting as a provide the informed written consent, if they 2¹ 21 dual agent, correct? sign the disclosure form? 22 22 MR. MacGILL: Object to the form. A. I wouldn't assume anything, first of 23 23 THE WITNESS: Yes. all. 24 24 Q. That's your understanding of New Q. Okay. I understood you to say that 25 correct9 25 York T aw, you did assume that. 215-341-3616 transcr pts@everestdepo.com Everest Court Reporting LLC Page: 61 (226 - 229) FILED: WESTCHESTER COUNTY CLERK 03/11/2024 11:36 AM INDEX NO. 60767/2018 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1788 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 03/11/2024 "Toni" Deposition of Annette Chrystal Pamela Goldstein, et. al. v. Houlihan/Lawrence, Inc. Page 230 Page 232 ¹ "TONI" 1 "TONI" ANNETTE CHRYSTAL ANNETTE CHRYSTAL 2 "assume." 2 A. I didn't say relationship. I always begin as a seller 3 3 Q. What then do you do to ensure that a client if I'm getting a listing. If I have a 4 4 client, in fact, is informed about dual agency buyer, it's the other way around, I have a 5 5 before acting as a dual agent? buyer. 6 6 A. I fully explain what it means to be So I never go into straight dual 7 7 a dual agent, and it depends on dual or dual agency, I have a client first. And then I 8 8 with designation, and my fiduciary duties, and explain informed advanced consent to the 9 9 which of my fiduciary duties is compromised; I client. ¹° ¹° explain that. And then if I become in the realm of ¹¹ ¹¹ Q. And do you ask them any questions to dual agency, then I would go back to the form ¹² ¹² test their understanding? and discuss, we've discussed this when we sat ¹³ 13 A. Do you understand what I just said? down and you became my client, and now we're in ¹4 14 Q. Okay. the realm of a dual agent situation, and we ¹5 ¹5 ]|j hffjj[ý fÆj need a few form for that, so I am no longer 16 working as your seller agent or your buyer ¹7 ] agent, I'm now either the dual agent, which 18 would be one person, or the dual with ¹9 designation, which may be someone from my 2° 2° Q. Have you ever asked a question office, or someone from Armonk, or Millbrook, 2¹ 2¹ beyond, do you understand? or Cold Springs. 22 22 A. Most likely, yes. If it's a Houlihan Lawrence agent 23 23 Q. Can you give us an example? listing, it's a dual agency, and it could be an 24 24 A. No, not off the top of my head. agent from anyone in our offices. 25 25 Q. How many times have yon explained 0. So let's take the situation where Page 231 Page 233 ¹ "TONI" ¹ "TONI" ANNETTE CHRYSTAL ANNETTE CHRYSTAL ² 2 this form in the course of your career? you're a listing agent working with a seller 3 3 A. Oh, many times. whom you're hoping to sign up as a seller 4 4 Q. Thousands? client and get the listing. 5 5 A. I don't know. I'm not going to give I understand you to say that you 6 6 it a number. I don't know. would begin by explaining the seller's agent 7 Q. You're not even comfortable saying relationship? * * hundreds? A. Correct. 9 9 A. I'm not comfortable saying any Q. And you would begin there, because ¹° ¹° number, no. that's the relationship that you would have ¹¹ ¹¹ Q. Okay. But this is a form and these with the client, at least at the outset? ¹² 12 are relationships that you have to explain to A. Correct. ¹³ -- ¹³ every client Q. But because the possibility exists ¹4 ¹4 A. Yes. that that relationship could change and you ¹5 -- ¹5 Q. in connection with every could enter the realm of dual agency, even at ¹6 ¹6 transaction; is that fair? the outset of the relationship, you would also ¹7 ¹7 A. That's fair. go on to explain both the dual agent and the ¹ª ¹ª Q. So if you would, just looking at dual agent with designated sales agents ¹9 Plaintiffs' ¹9 Exhibit 9, if you would, tell us relationship? 2° 2° what it is that you tell your clients about the A. I would explain the informed advance ²¹