Preview
FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/04/2024 11:10 PM INDEX NO. 452564/2022
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1659 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/04/2024
In The Matter Of:
NYS Attorney General v.
Donald Trump
November 27, 2023
Ny Supreme Court- Civil
Original File November 27_2023 NYS Atty General v Donald Trump.txt
Min-U-Script® with Word Index
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FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/04/2024 11:10 PM INDEX NO. 452564/2022
NYSCEF DOC. NO.
NYS 1659 General v.
Attorney RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/04/2024
Donald Trump November 27, 2023
Page 5116 Proceedings Page 5118
1 SUPREME COURT OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK
COUNTY OF NEW YORK: CIVIL TERM: PART 37 1 COURT OFFICER: All rise.
2 ----------------------------------------------------X 2 Part 37 is now in session.
PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK, BY LETITIA
3 JAMES, ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE STATE OF NEW 3 The Honorable Judge Arthur Engoron presiding.
YORK,
4 4 Make sure all cell phones are on silent. Laptops and cell
Plaintiff, 5 phones will be permitted, but only to members of the
5
- against - INDEX # 6 press. There is absolutely no recording or photography of
6 452564/2022
DONALD J. TRUMP; DONALD TRUMP JR.; ERIC TRUMP; 7 any kind allowed in the courtroom.
7 IVANKA TRUMP; ALLEN WEISSELBERG; JEFFREY 8 Now be seated and come to order.
McCONNEY; THE DONALD J. TRUMP REVOCABLE TRUST;
8 THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION, INC.; TRUMP ORGANIZATION 9 THE COURT: Defendants would you like to call
LLC; DJT HOLDINGS, LLC; DJT HOLDINGS MANAGING
9 MEMBER; TRUMP ENDEAVOR 12, LLC; 401 NORTH WABASH 10 your next witness?
VENTURE, LLC; TRUMP OLD POST OFFICE, LLC; 40 WALL 11 MR. ROBERT: Yes, Your Honor. The defendants
10 STREET, LLC; and SEVEN SPRINGS, LLC,
11 Defendants. 12 call Mark Hawthorn.
----------------------------------------------------X
12 Bench Trial 13 (Whereupon, the witness took the stand.)
13 November 27, 2023 14 COURT OFFICER: Please raise your right hand.
60 Centre Street
14 New York, New York 10007 15 M A R K H A W T H O R N, after having
15
B E F O R E: THE HONORABLE ARTHUR S. ENGORON, 16 first been duly sworn was examined and testified as
16 Justice of the Supreme Court 17 follows:
17
18 A P P E A R A N C E S: 18 COURT OFFICER: Please have a seat.
19
20 OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL 19 State your full name and home or business
OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK - LETITIA JAMES
21 Attorneys for the Plaintiff 20 address for the record.
28 Liberty Street 21 THE WITNESS: My name is Mark Hawthorn, and my
22 New York, NY 10005
By: KEVIN WALLACE, ESQ. 22 business address is 725 Fifth Avenue, New York.
23 COLLEEN K. FAHERTY, ESQ. 23 THE COURT: Zip code?
ANDREW AMER, ESQ.
24 ERIC HAREN, ESQ. 24 THE WITNESS: 10022.
LOUIS SOLOMON, ESQ.
25 25 THE COURT: We probably heard that before.
Proceedings Page 5117 Hawthorn - by Defendant - Direct (Robert) Page 5119
1 A P P E A R A N C E S: (Cont'd) 1 Mr. Robert, would you like to proceed?
2
3 CONTINENTAL PLLC 2 MR. ROBERT: Thank you. Good morning, Your
Attorneys for Defendants 3 Honor.
4 101 North Monroe Street, Suite 750
Tallahassee, FL 32302 4 DIRECT EXAMINATION
5 By: CHRISTOPHER KISE, ESQ.
LAZARO FIELDS, ESQ. 5 BY MR. ROBERT:
6 JESUS SUAREZ, ESQ. 6 Q Good morning, Mr. Hawthorn.
7
8 ROBERT & ROBERT, PLLC 7 A Good morning.
Attorneys for Defendants 8 Q I know you testified a few weeks ago. But I, just to
9 526 RXR Plaza
Uniondale, NY 11556 9 put things context, I want to go briefly through your
10 By: CLIFFORD ROBERT, ESQ. 10 educational background and professional history. Okay, sir?
11
12 11 A Okay.
HABBA MADAIO & ASSOCIATES, LLP
13 Attorneys for Defendants 12 Q Please tell us about your educational background from
1430 US Highway 296, Suite 240 13 college on.
14 Bedminster, NJ 07921
By: MICHAEL MADAIO, ESQ. 14 A So, I attended the University of Florida and I
15 15 obtained a Bachelor's degree and a Master's degree in
16
17 MORIAN LAW, PLLC 16 accounting in the year 2000.
Attorneys for Defendants 17 Subsequent to graduation I had my first employment at
18 60 East 42nd Street, Suite 4600
New York, NY 10165 18 Arthur Anderson, which is a public accounting firm in Fort
19 By: ARMEN MORIAN, ESQ.
20 19 Lauderdale, Florida. I worked at Arthur Anderson from 2000 to
21 20 2002. From 2002 to --
THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION
22 Attorneys for the Defendant 21 Q I'll break it down.
725 Fifth Avenue 22 Prior to your work at Arthur Anderson, did you obtain
23 New York, NY 10022
By: ALAN GARTEN, ESQ. 23 any professional certification?
24 MICHELE PANTELOUKAS 24 A Yes. I obtained a CPA license in the state of
MICHAEL RANITA
25 Senior Court Reporters 25 Florida.
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Donald Trump November 27, 2023
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1 Q And when did you obtain that license, sir? 1 Q And, sir, when you just testified about your work at
2 A I obtained that license in 2000. 2 Arthur Anderson, you said your role kind of expanded during
3 Q Okay. So now talking about your time at Arthur 3 those two years. What did you mean by that?
4 Anderson, which I believe you said was 2000 to 2002, sir? 4 A I started out as a staff person, so I was on client
5 A Correct. 5 engagements in a staff capacity doing work at the direction of
6 Q What did you do at Arthur Anderson during that time? 6 an audit senior, an audit manager. And after about a year was
7 A I was in the audit practice, so I worked on audits of 7 promoted to an audit senior, where you are doing more of the
8 both public and private companies as a staff auditor; with 8 planning, you are doing more of the client interaction and
9 increasing responsibility to a senior auditor overseeing audit 9 different levels of responsibility in a supervisory capacity
10 engagements for the firm. 10 over an audit staff, if that makes sense.
11 Q And in its most basic sense, what is an audit, sir? 11 Q It does.
12 A An audit is a -- when a company requests that a firm, 12 What was the role you had at the time you left Arthur
13 such as an accounting firm, comes in and does work and 13 Anderson in 2002?
14 procedures to check the books and records of the company; and 14 A I was an audit senior.
15 to issue -- potentially issue audited financial statements of 15 Q Where did you go from Arthur Anderson, sir?
16 the company. 16 A In 2002 I went to Ernst & Young. It effectively took
17 Q When an accounting firm reviews -- I know review is a 17 over the practice of Arthur Anderson in Fort Lauderdale at the
18 term of art, I will not use that word. When an accounting firm 18 time. So I was in the same office with the same clients. It
19 analyzes financial records of a client of theirs, are there 19 was just that the Ernst & Young firm took over that office from
20 different levels of review? 20 Arthur Anderson at the time in 2002.
21 A Yes. 21 Q How long were you there with Ernst & Young?
22 Q What are those different levels? 22 A Ernst & Young, I was there for two years from 2002 to
23 A Generally speaking there is a compilation; there is a 23 2004. And I started as an audit senior, and continued in that
24 review; there is an audit; and there is maybe something else 24 role as a -- an experienced audit senior when I left in 2004.
25 called agreed-upon procedures. 25 Q And did your responsibilities change in any way
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1 Q Okay. Taking -- leaving the agreed-upon procedures 1 during those two years from 2002 to 2004?
2 out for a moment. Very briefly, can you explain those three 2 A They did. I had increasing levels of responsibility
3 things? 3 as I became more senior to the firm and more senior on the
4 A Sure. So, in terms of the level of work that an 4 client engagements that I was on. So I had more in supervisory
5 accounting firm would undergo, the compilation is the lowest 5 responsibilities, I had more interactions with the client on
6 level of work and assurance. So a report that is issued with a 6 more technical accounting matters, as I have gotten more, at
7 compilation opinion states that. 7 the time skilled in certain transactions and understanding
8 Whereas, a review would be additional procedures that 8 accounting rules and financial reporting disclosure.
9 are done. 9 Q Where did you go after Ernst & Young?
10 And an audit would be the highest level of assurance 10 A I left Ernst & Young in June of 2004, and I joined a
11 that there is substantive testing and other procedures done by 11 firm called Kerzner International, which is a company, not an
12 the accounting firm with respect to the financial statements. 12 audit firm. So Kerzner International at the time, based in
13 Q And when you discussed your experience at Arthur 13 Plantation, Florida, was the owner and operator of luxury
14 Anderson, was that solely in the audit, meaning one of those 14 resort hotels. And I served as my first role as the manager of
15 three, or did that encompass more than just audits? 15 financial reporting.
16 A My role encompassed everything, because we had 16 Q And what made you decide to go to Kerzner
17 clients that had different needs. So I would have a client 17 International in 2004?
18 that has a need to issue a compilation report or I might have a 18 A It was a unique opportunity to work in private
19 client, same client, have a need to issue an audit report. 19 industry, which I had an affinity to do. And it was a good
20 Generally speaking, an audit report is required for 20 circumstance for me because the individual they were looking
21 publicly traded companies that file financial statements with 21 for had my -- I believed I fit the background for what they
22 the SEC or have public debt. 22 were looking for, meaning some level of public accounting
23 Whereas a compilation would be more for another 23 experience, and an understanding also of the hospitality
24 purpose. If, for example, a company needed to provide numbers 24 industry.
25 to a lender or something like that, generally speaking. 25 At Ernst & Young I had worked on some hospitality
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Donald Trump November 27, 2023
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1 clients as well, so it gave me an opportunity to expand my 1 packages, so to speak, that gave, you know, information on
2 career and work at a private company in a capacity where I had 2 quarterly board meetings to the ownership of the company and
3 the right skill set. 3 directors of the company.
4 Q And from what years did you work at Kerzner 4 Q When you testified a little earlier, you talked about
5 International, sir? 5 the "public accounting background," what do you mean by the
6 A I worked at Kerzner International from 2004 to 2016. 6 term "public accounting"?
7 Q And can you describe for the Court how your role, if 7 A Public accounting is generally referred to, again, a
8 in any way, changed at that time period in Kerzner? 8 firm like Arthur Anderson, Ernst & Young that is engaged in the
9 A Over the course of my employment at Kerzner I again 9 audits or other work of companies that are public registrants.
10 had increasing levels of responsibility. So I started as a 10 Again, so a company that might have stock traded on a stock
11 manager of financial reporting. At the time in 2004 to 2006 11 exchange or public debt. So, generally speaking, that's what
12 the company was a public company. So I was in charge of 12 public accounting means. It deals with companies that have
13 overseeing the financial statements that were filed with the 13 those type of more stringent requirements than a private
14 SEC. 14 enterprise that wouldn't necessarily have those thresholds of
15 In 2006 the company went private on private 15 reporting requirements.
16 transaction. And I continued in a role of financial reporting 16 THE COURT: Mr. Robert, I am not sure everyone
17 but more so as a private company where you report to the 17 can hear you as well as I can. Raise that and raise your
18 ownership interests of the company versus public company 18 voice.
19 reporting. 19 MR. ROBERT: Thank you, Your Honor. First time
20 And then as the -- my role expanded in 2000 -- let's 20 I am accused of that.
21 say 12 and thereafter, I got involved more also in treasury. 21 THE COURT: If you switch places with him you
22 Became appointed as the vice president of treasury, where I 22 are fine.
23 still held financial reporting oversight and responsibilities 23 Q Mr. Hawthorn, you are familiar with a term called
24 because of my knowledge of that area. 24 GAAP, right?
25 But also got involved working with the company's 25 A Yes.
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1 lenders; working with the company's other stakeholders in terms 1 Q What is GAAP?
2 of financial matters. Not only historical financial matters, 2 A GAAP is an acronym for Generally Accepted Accounting
3 which is what the financial statements oversee or tell, but 3 Principles.
4 also prospective financial matters like, you know, how the 4 Q And what is your general understanding of what GAAP
5 company is capitalized, how the company is working with its 5 is?
6 lenders on debt arrangements and things like that. 6 A GAAP is effectively the rules and guidelines around
7 Q You used a phrase, "vice president of treasury;" what 7 accounting practice in companies that are, you know, recording
8 exactly does that mean or did it mean? 8 books and records and how transactions are recorded and
9 A That meant my role was expanded to not just be with 9 reported.
10 financial reporting, but also work with lenders and also 10 Q Okay. I now want to take you past 2016, where did
11 oversee the cash flow of the company. So in treasury you are 11 you go after Kerzner in 2016?
12 also dealing with banks; you are dealing with lenders; you are 12 A So in February of 2016 I was hired as the Chief
13 dealing with cash flow forecasting for the operations of the 13 Accounting Officer of Trump Hotels based in New York.
14 company. Not necessarily just financial reporting, which is a 14 Q And what is the role -- what was the role of Chief
15 more historical-type role where you are issuing financials of 15 Accounting Officer at the Trump Hotels in New York?
16 what happened in the past. But my role also expanded to be 16 A So my role when I started was reporting to the CEO of
17 more operational in terms of how the company is looking forward 17 Trump Hotels, a gentleman named Eric Danziger at the time. My
18 prospectively and doing its business. 18 role encompassed overseeing all of the financial and accounting
19 Q You testified that you dealt with lenders and 19 aspects of the hotel division of the Trump Organization.
20 stakeholders, what did you mean by stakeholders? 20 Q And how, if in any way, did your title and/or role
21 A Board members of the company. So even though it is a 21 change since that time in 2016?
22 private company, the board was comprised of certain individuals 22 A In 2016 while my title was effectively Chief
23 appointed to direct the operations of the company. So, we 23 Accounting Officer, I was the highest ranking finance and
24 would also, in my role, provide to the board of the company, 24 accounting executive in the hotel division. So, in January of
25 like, quarterly updates. So, I would help provide board 25 2020 my title was effectively updated to Chief Financial
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Attorney RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/04/2024
Donald Trump November 27, 2023
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1 Officer of Trump Hotels. Although I continued to still report 1 A There is some overlap because certain of the hotels
2 to the CEO of Trump Hotels and was effectively doing the same 2 are resort hotels, meaning that they have golf courses on the
3 job. 3 property. And so there is some overlap where the golf course
4 Q Did the scope of your job then change at all from 4 is a component of the resort hotel, and its financials roll up
5 2016 to '20, or just your title? 5 into the reporting of that hotel resort.
6 A The title. The scope was effectively the same. 6 Q And would Doral be one of those?
7 Q Okay. And what, if anything -- withdrawn. 7 A Doral is a good example.
8 Since 2020, what position have you held with the 8 Q Okay. Going to the hotel division specifically, if
9 company? 9 you could explain how the accounting team in the hotel division
10 A So in May of 2022, the CEO of Trump Hotels, Mr. Eric 10 works?
11 Danziger, left the company. So the company promoted me to 11 A I would describe our structure as very decentralized,
12 Chief Operating Officer of Trump Hotels. I still have 12 meaning that each hotel has its own general manager who
13 continuing responsibility over finance and accounting, but I 13 oversees the entire property, and has its own finance
14 now oversee the operational aspects of the hotel portfolio as 14 department that does the day-to-day finance of the hotel.
15 the highest executive level in the hotel division. Not just 15 So, for example, if you mention Doral, Doral has its
16 for finance and accounting but also for operations. 16 own general manager. Doral has its own director of finance.
17 Q And you had mentioned you had report -- withdrawn. 17 Each hotel has its own departments like that to do the
18 When Mr. Danziger -- was he the CEO of the hotel 18 day-to-day accounting and finance work and day-to-day
19 group you said? 19 operations; under the auspices and the direction of the
20 A Yes. 20 corporate office where I reside, but obviously we entrust the
21 Q At that point he was your direct report? 21 teams at the properties to handle the day-to-day of the
22 A Yes. 22 operations.
23 Q Since he left the company, who is your direct report? 23 Q So looking at it from an organizational chart, for
24 A My direct report is Eric Trump. 24 the purpose if you are sitting at the role of the COO of the
25 Q Okay. And that's the same today, correct? 25 hotel division, who is it in the hotels that reports to you?
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1 A Correct. 1 A All of the general managers of the hotels. So the
2 Q And is there a CEO of the hotel division? 2 leaders of the actual hotel properties.
3 A No, there is no one with that title. But I, as the 3 Q And when you want financial information about these
4 Chief Operating Officer or COO, I am at the highest executive 4 individual hotels, how do you go about getting it?
5 level of the hotel division of the company. 5 A Each individual hotel prepares its own financial
6 Q And I think you described it a few moments ago, but 6 information; maintains its own books and records or general
7 just to be clear, what exactly are the responsibilities of the 7 ledger, is a common term for books and records. So at the
8 Chief Operating Officer of the hotel division? Is it okay if I 8 property level those are all maintained. We have a mechanism
9 call it the hotel division? 9 at the corporate office where we have a reporting timeline
10 A That's accurate. It is not just finance and 10 where the hotels will report to us in a very standardized way.
11 accounting but it is everything related to the hotel division 11 There are monthly financial reports.
12 operations, including sales and marketing; including 12 And our other applicable reports that we will review,
13 operational aspects of how to operate a hotel; how we set rates 13 and discuss and review these with the properties, to get a
14 for room rates; and how we employ, employees over across the 14 better understanding and be, kind of, on top of the operation
15 hotel portfolio. So not just financing accountant, but all 15 and understanding what is happening in the business.
16 operational aspects. 16 Q I know you are familiar with the name Allen
17 Q I referred to the hotel division. What, if any, 17 Weisselberg, correct?
18 other divisions does the Trump Organization have? 18 A Yes.
19 A So broadly speaking there is commercial real estate 19 Q Where was Allen Weisselberg within the corporate
20 in the organization. Then there is hospitality-related assets 20 structure?
21 like hotels. And then similar to that there is a golf 21 A Allen Weisselberg was the Chief Financial Officer of
22 division. So there is private and public golf courses in the 22 the Trump Organization.
23 company. 23 Q And what, if anywhere -- withdrawn.
24 Q And do any of the golf courses fall within your 24 How, if in any way, did your role change after
25 bucket? 25 Mr. Weisselberg left the company?
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NYS 1659 General v.
Attorney RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/04/2024
Donald Trump November 27, 2023
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1 A After Mr. Weisselberg left the company I have been 1 golf, so that you could consistently compare across every golf
2 called upon from time to time as needed to assist with how the 2 course the operations, the performance and understand, if
3 company is operating generally in other divisions, so not just 3 everything is booked the same way and the same accounts, you
4 the hotel division. And I have been called upon to, kind of, 4 can have consistency. That's an example.
5 ask how we could replicate certain practices and procedures 5 Q You used the phrase, "chart of accounts," what do you
6 that we do in the hotel division across the company. 6 mean by that?
7 Q And if you could add a little more detail to that? 7 A The chart of accounts is the, for lack of a better
8 A Sure. I mean, I think the hotel division, in my 8 term, the books and records of the company, where all of the
9 humble opinion, because I have -- I am overseeing it, we have a 9 debits and credits go when you book journal entries. So there
10 good set of procedures and controls and ways we go about doing 10 is typically a number assigned to a certain general ledger
11 the day-to-day business in the operations. So, for example, we 11 account. A description assigned to a certain general ledger
12 have a standardized chart of accounts. I know it sounds kind 12 account that comprises the assets, liabilities and equity of
13 of boring, but if every hotel has the same general chart of 13 the books and records of the trial balance. And so it is much
14 accounts, it is easy to have consistency and roll up across the 14 more efficient as a corporate oversight to evaluate the
15 company. 15 performance of your portfolio if everyone is on the same chart.
16 And do you want me to keep explaining? 16 Now, that's not to say that each entity had anything
17 Q Let me break it down a little. 17 wrong with it. It is just that each entity maybe booked things
18 A Okay. 18 in a different account than a different entity. So if you are
19 Q Did there come a time that someone within the Trump 19 trying to cross compare certain things, it may not be as
20 Organization asked you to assist in these other projects after 20 noticeable because they are not on an apples to apples basis.
21 Mr. Weisselberg left? 21 So this is kind of inherent, you know, efficiency in the
22 A Yes. I think Eric Trump has asked me -- well, I know 22 organization and the golf division similar to what we had in
23 Eric Trump has asked me to assist in other matters where I can 23 the hotel division as an example.
24 be of assistance to the company. 24 Q Has there been any new accounting software that has
25 Q Okay. And just so that we are clear, that assistance 25 been used as a result of your involvement in these other
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1 is in what form? 1 divisions?
2 A It is helping to utilize certain of the 2 A So, in addition to the chart of accounts project at
3 characteristics of the hotel division and other ways to create, 3 golf, which is utilizing the same software which is golf
4 you know, more efficiencies, better procedures and practices 4 specific, there is an undertaking ongoing now at the Trump
5 across the company as a whole. 5 Organization corporate accounting level to input new general
6 Q You talked about uniformity, and I think you used a 6 ledger accounting software, so to be more modern, to be more
7 phrase "roll up" a couple of minutes ago. What did you 7 like the hotel division. Meaning in a way that today in 2023
8 discover when you were asked to help -- I'll use the word 8 there is software packages available that helps people do their
9 "modernize" the other divisions? 9 jobs a little bit easier, more consistent and have more
10 A So as an example, I think as I was explaining before, 10 control, standardization.
11 the hotel division has the benefit of already an existing 11 So we have a -- I am assisting with a project at the
12 structure where every hotel is accounted for in the same way. 12 corporate office accounting level to put in a new system that
13 As I was asked to, kind of, assist in other areas of the 13 will help in this effort to improve the efficiency and the
14 business, for example in the golf division, which is similar to 14 reporting and the technical capabilities of the -- the other
15 the hospitality division hotels, the golf division at the time 15 divisions of the company, like the commercial real estate and
16 of, let's say, summer of 2021, didn't have that same 16 the corporate office and that sort of thing.
17 uniformity. As the golf division grew over time, golf courses 17 Q When you talk about the corporate office, what are
18 were acquired and the property level comptrollers entrusted to 18 you referring to?
19 oversee the books and records, either continued to use the same 19 A So, the corporate office resides generally at
20 chart of accounts that they had on a previous ownership, or had 20 725 Fifth Avenue in New York, which has a back office
21 discretion in how they could book transactions in a chart of 21 accounting function. There is a team that oversees those
22 accounts that made sense for their property. 22 assets. Whereas I oversee the hospitality hotel assets.
23 So as an example, one of the projects that I helped 23 Q And what is the difference between the corporate
24 to oversee over the last year and a half with some team members 24 accounting level you used -- you phrased, as opposed to how
25 from my team, is to help standardize the chart of accounts for 25 things work at the hotels or golf courses?
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NYS 1659 General v.
Attorney RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/04/2024
Donald Trump November 27, 2023
Hawthorn - by Defendant - Direct (Robert) Page 5136 Hawthorn - by Defendant - Direct (Robert) Page 5138
1 A Maybe to put it in the appropriate context, that was 1 Q What were the circumstances surrounding that, sir?
2 kind of the corporate office's, kind of, generally referred to 2 A So, just for perspective and background, right, the
3 the prior regime of Jeff McConney and Allen Weisselberg. 3 way that the corporate office functioned, had previously
4 Whereas now we have other individuals in certain roles 4 worked, is that there was only -- if you are only paying with
5 overseeing the commercial assets, the real estate assets of the 5 check and you only have three signers who can sign checks, you
6 portfolio. 6 are very limited on how you can make disbursements. And the
7 Q And the commercial assets are no longer governed by 7 three signers that were always entrusted with overseeing the
8 the corporate accounting department, or are they? 8 bank accounts were Allen Weisselberg, Donald Trump Jr. and Eric
9 A They are. 9 Trump. So, in practice, Allen Weisselberg in his role, to my
10 Q Is there a distinction between who is running -- who 10 understanding, would be the one that would review check
11 is in the corporate accounting department versus who is at the 11 disbursements and sign them so that they would go out, because
12 golf courses and hotels? If so, what is that? 12 that was his role.
13 A There is. So we have, again, myself in hotels. We 13 I guess at the time of summer of 2021 Allen
14 have an individual in golf. We have individuals in the 14 Weisselberg was no longer in the role of Chief Financial
15 corporate accounting function today. 15 Officer. He was removed from those duties. So, when the
16 You know, for example, I think you may know Donna 16 operation keeps needing to run, checks need to be signed. So
17 Kidder. She continues to be in the capacity of an assistant 17 now you only have two signers who can sign checks, Donald J.
18 comptroller. We have a director of finance now that is running 18 Trump Jr. and Eric Trump. So I recall walking into Eric
19 the oversight of that department, that runs that day-to-day. 19 Trump's office and he called me in to assist, and he had a
20 Q What, if any, involvement did you have in the last 20 stack of checks to sign that was very high.
21 few years with the check issuing system at the Trump 21 And he said: Well, what do I do with all of these?
22 Organization? 22 Because typically Eric would never sign checks. It would be
23 A Can you repeat the question? 23 Allen. Allen would sign all of the checks and Eric would work
24 Q Sure. What, if any, involvement have you had in the 24 on the operation. But if you need to pay vendors, who is going
25 last few years with the check issuing system of the Trump 25 to sign the check? It is really Eric or Don.
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1 Organization? 1 So Eric came to me and he said: Well, Mark, how do
2 A By check issuing system you are referring to 2 you do this in the hotel division?
3 disbursements? 3 I said: Well, we don't do it like this. We pay
4 Q Yes, disbursements, paying bills. 4 through ACH. We pay through virtual means, electronic means.
5 A Sure. So as an example of, kind of, how the company 5 We have systems and processes that are available and tools that
6 used to do things versus how it does it now, the company under 6 are available to the company to modernize, kind of, the
7 the prior regime, you know, ran as it did as a family run 7 functionality. So that's how I got involved in that project.
8 enterprise using very basic functions. For example, to pay 8 So commensurate with, kind of, the upgrade of the
9 bills and vendors everything was always paid via paper check. 9 general ledger package of the Trump Organization at large and
10 That's -- that worked in the 1980s and it still works today. 10 the corporate office, my role has helped assist in replicating
11 But there is other ways to get vendors paid more quickly, more 11 some of the hotel division efficiencies to the organization so
12 timely, more accurately. So, I was asked to assist in, kind 12 that we are able to pay vendors in a more efficient way. Saves
13 of, helping the corporate office, kind of, maybe update 13 a lot of time and resources when you are not needing to put a
14 modernize the way things are done, because we do things in the 14 stamp on envelopes and trace and track down outstanding checks.
15 hotel division that is more, let's say, in the way companies 15 So, kind of one of the initiatives I have helped with. And
16 operate today. 16 Eric Trump, I know, is proud of being as paperless as we can in
17 Q Did there come a point in time someone at the Trump 17 disbursements.
18 Organization specifically asked you to assist with this 18 Q You have heard of something during the course of this
19 disbursement issue? 19 trial called a Statement of Financial Condition, correct, sir?
20 A Yes. 20 A Yes.
21 Q And who was that person? 21 Q And did you have any involvement in the preparation
22 A Eric Trump. 22 of President Trump's Statement of Financial Condition?
23 Q And what were the circumstances surrounding -- first 23 A I did not.
24 of all, when was that, if you recall? 24 Q Did there come a time that you became aware of a
25 A It was probably in the summer of 2021. 25 document called President Trump's Statement of Financial
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1 Condition? 1 company. It's not required by any lender currently, and/or any
2 A Yes. 2 other constituency.
3 Q And when was that approximately? 3 Q Okay.
4 A In connection with one of the hotel audits that I was 4 I want to switch topics for a minute and talk to you
5 working on. There was a request from one of those auditors to 5 about Mazars. Are you familiar with a company known as Mazars?
6 get some more information about the parent company of the 6 A Yes.
7 hotel. And I was doing some diligence to try to provide the 7 Q And what is Mazars?
8 best available information. In doing so, I was aware that 8 A Mazars is an accounting firm. It was the main
9 there was this document that existed. And I helped to 9 accounting firm of The Trump Organization when I started in
10 facilitate a meeting with the accounting team in the hotel -- 10 2016, and I guess prior to that they had a long standing
11 that was doing the audit of the hotel, and the accounting team 11 relationship with The Trump Organization to be the, um, you
12 that was familiar with the statement, so that they could 12
Preview
FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/04/2024 11:10 PM INDEX NO. 452564/2022 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1659 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/04/2024 In The Matter Of: NYS Attorney General v. Donald Trump November 27, 2023 Ny Supreme Court- Civil Original File November 27_2023 NYS Atty General v Donald Trump.txt Min-U-Script® with Word Index 1 of 316 FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/04/2024 11:10 PM INDEX NO. 452564/2022 NYSCEF DOC. NO. NYS 1659 General v. Attorney RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/04/2024 Donald Trump November 27, 2023 Page 5116 Proceedings Page 5118 1 SUPREME COURT OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK COUNTY OF NEW YORK: CIVIL TERM: PART 37 1 COURT OFFICER: All rise. 2 ----------------------------------------------------X 2 Part 37 is now in session. PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK, BY LETITIA 3 JAMES, ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE STATE OF NEW 3 The Honorable Judge Arthur Engoron presiding. YORK, 4 4 Make sure all cell phones are on silent. Laptops and cell Plaintiff, 5 phones will be permitted, but only to members of the 5 - against - INDEX # 6 press. There is absolutely no recording or photography of 6 452564/2022 DONALD J. TRUMP; DONALD TRUMP JR.; ERIC TRUMP; 7 any kind allowed in the courtroom. 7 IVANKA TRUMP; ALLEN WEISSELBERG; JEFFREY 8 Now be seated and come to order. McCONNEY; THE DONALD J. TRUMP REVOCABLE TRUST; 8 THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION, INC.; TRUMP ORGANIZATION 9 THE COURT: Defendants would you like to call LLC; DJT HOLDINGS, LLC; DJT HOLDINGS MANAGING 9 MEMBER; TRUMP ENDEAVOR 12, LLC; 401 NORTH WABASH 10 your next witness? VENTURE, LLC; TRUMP OLD POST OFFICE, LLC; 40 WALL 11 MR. ROBERT: Yes, Your Honor. The defendants 10 STREET, LLC; and SEVEN SPRINGS, LLC, 11 Defendants. 12 call Mark Hawthorn. ----------------------------------------------------X 12 Bench Trial 13 (Whereupon, the witness took the stand.) 13 November 27, 2023 14 COURT OFFICER: Please raise your right hand. 60 Centre Street 14 New York, New York 10007 15 M A R K H A W T H O R N, after having 15 B E F O R E: THE HONORABLE ARTHUR S. ENGORON, 16 first been duly sworn was examined and testified as 16 Justice of the Supreme Court 17 follows: 17 18 A P P E A R A N C E S: 18 COURT OFFICER: Please have a seat. 19 20 OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL 19 State your full name and home or business OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK - LETITIA JAMES 21 Attorneys for the Plaintiff 20 address for the record. 28 Liberty Street 21 THE WITNESS: My name is Mark Hawthorn, and my 22 New York, NY 10005 By: KEVIN WALLACE, ESQ. 22 business address is 725 Fifth Avenue, New York. 23 COLLEEN K. FAHERTY, ESQ. 23 THE COURT: Zip code? ANDREW AMER, ESQ. 24 ERIC HAREN, ESQ. 24 THE WITNESS: 10022. LOUIS SOLOMON, ESQ. 25 25 THE COURT: We probably heard that before. Proceedings Page 5117 Hawthorn - by Defendant - Direct (Robert) Page 5119 1 A P P E A R A N C E S: (Cont'd) 1 Mr. Robert, would you like to proceed? 2 3 CONTINENTAL PLLC 2 MR. ROBERT: Thank you. Good morning, Your Attorneys for Defendants 3 Honor. 4 101 North Monroe Street, Suite 750 Tallahassee, FL 32302 4 DIRECT EXAMINATION 5 By: CHRISTOPHER KISE, ESQ. LAZARO FIELDS, ESQ. 5 BY MR. ROBERT: 6 JESUS SUAREZ, ESQ. 6 Q Good morning, Mr. Hawthorn. 7 8 ROBERT & ROBERT, PLLC 7 A Good morning. Attorneys for Defendants 8 Q I know you testified a few weeks ago. But I, just to 9 526 RXR Plaza Uniondale, NY 11556 9 put things context, I want to go briefly through your 10 By: CLIFFORD ROBERT, ESQ. 10 educational background and professional history. Okay, sir? 11 12 11 A Okay. HABBA MADAIO & ASSOCIATES, LLP 13 Attorneys for Defendants 12 Q Please tell us about your educational background from 1430 US Highway 296, Suite 240 13 college on. 14 Bedminster, NJ 07921 By: MICHAEL MADAIO, ESQ. 14 A So, I attended the University of Florida and I 15 15 obtained a Bachelor's degree and a Master's degree in 16 17 MORIAN LAW, PLLC 16 accounting in the year 2000. Attorneys for Defendants 17 Subsequent to graduation I had my first employment at 18 60 East 42nd Street, Suite 4600 New York, NY 10165 18 Arthur Anderson, which is a public accounting firm in Fort 19 By: ARMEN MORIAN, ESQ. 20 19 Lauderdale, Florida. I worked at Arthur Anderson from 2000 to 21 20 2002. From 2002 to -- THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION 22 Attorneys for the Defendant 21 Q I'll break it down. 725 Fifth Avenue 22 Prior to your work at Arthur Anderson, did you obtain 23 New York, NY 10022 By: ALAN GARTEN, ESQ. 23 any professional certification? 24 MICHELE PANTELOUKAS 24 A Yes. I obtained a CPA license in the state of MICHAEL RANITA 25 Senior Court Reporters 25 Florida. Min-U-Script® Ny Supreme Court- Civil (1) Pages 5116 - 5119 2 of 316 FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/04/2024 11:10 PM INDEX NO. 452564/2022 NYSCEF DOC. NO. NYS 1659 General v. Attorney RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/04/2024 Donald Trump November 27, 2023 Hawthorn - by Defendant - Direct (Robert) Page 5120 Hawthorn - by Defendant - Direct (Robert) Page 5122 1 Q And when did you obtain that license, sir? 1 Q And, sir, when you just testified about your work at 2 A I obtained that license in 2000. 2 Arthur Anderson, you said your role kind of expanded during 3 Q Okay. So now talking about your time at Arthur 3 those two years. What did you mean by that? 4 Anderson, which I believe you said was 2000 to 2002, sir? 4 A I started out as a staff person, so I was on client 5 A Correct. 5 engagements in a staff capacity doing work at the direction of 6 Q What did you do at Arthur Anderson during that time? 6 an audit senior, an audit manager. And after about a year was 7 A I was in the audit practice, so I worked on audits of 7 promoted to an audit senior, where you are doing more of the 8 both public and private companies as a staff auditor; with 8 planning, you are doing more of the client interaction and 9 increasing responsibility to a senior auditor overseeing audit 9 different levels of responsibility in a supervisory capacity 10 engagements for the firm. 10 over an audit staff, if that makes sense. 11 Q And in its most basic sense, what is an audit, sir? 11 Q It does. 12 A An audit is a -- when a company requests that a firm, 12 What was the role you had at the time you left Arthur 13 such as an accounting firm, comes in and does work and 13 Anderson in 2002? 14 procedures to check the books and records of the company; and 14 A I was an audit senior. 15 to issue -- potentially issue audited financial statements of 15 Q Where did you go from Arthur Anderson, sir? 16 the company. 16 A In 2002 I went to Ernst & Young. It effectively took 17 Q When an accounting firm reviews -- I know review is a 17 over the practice of Arthur Anderson in Fort Lauderdale at the 18 term of art, I will not use that word. When an accounting firm 18 time. So I was in the same office with the same clients. It 19 analyzes financial records of a client of theirs, are there 19 was just that the Ernst & Young firm took over that office from 20 different levels of review? 20 Arthur Anderson at the time in 2002. 21 A Yes. 21 Q How long were you there with Ernst & Young? 22 Q What are those different levels? 22 A Ernst & Young, I was there for two years from 2002 to 23 A Generally speaking there is a compilation; there is a 23 2004. And I started as an audit senior, and continued in that 24 review; there is an audit; and there is maybe something else 24 role as a -- an experienced audit senior when I left in 2004. 25 called agreed-upon procedures. 25 Q And did your responsibilities change in any way Hawthorn - by Defendant - Direct (Robert) Page 5121 Hawthorn - by Defendant - Direct (Robert) Page 5123 1 Q Okay. Taking -- leaving the agreed-upon procedures 1 during those two years from 2002 to 2004? 2 out for a moment. Very briefly, can you explain those three 2 A They did. I had increasing levels of responsibility 3 things? 3 as I became more senior to the firm and more senior on the 4 A Sure. So, in terms of the level of work that an 4 client engagements that I was on. So I had more in supervisory 5 accounting firm would undergo, the compilation is the lowest 5 responsibilities, I had more interactions with the client on 6 level of work and assurance. So a report that is issued with a 6 more technical accounting matters, as I have gotten more, at 7 compilation opinion states that. 7 the time skilled in certain transactions and understanding 8 Whereas, a review would be additional procedures that 8 accounting rules and financial reporting disclosure. 9 are done. 9 Q Where did you go after Ernst & Young? 10 And an audit would be the highest level of assurance 10 A I left Ernst & Young in June of 2004, and I joined a 11 that there is substantive testing and other procedures done by 11 firm called Kerzner International, which is a company, not an 12 the accounting firm with respect to the financial statements. 12 audit firm. So Kerzner International at the time, based in 13 Q And when you discussed your experience at Arthur 13 Plantation, Florida, was the owner and operator of luxury 14 Anderson, was that solely in the audit, meaning one of those 14 resort hotels. And I served as my first role as the manager of 15 three, or did that encompass more than just audits? 15 financial reporting. 16 A My role encompassed everything, because we had 16 Q And what made you decide to go to Kerzner 17 clients that had different needs. So I would have a client 17 International in 2004? 18 that has a need to issue a compilation report or I might have a 18 A It was a unique opportunity to work in private 19 client, same client, have a need to issue an audit report. 19 industry, which I had an affinity to do. And it was a good 20 Generally speaking, an audit report is required for 20 circumstance for me because the individual they were looking 21 publicly traded companies that file financial statements with 21 for had my -- I believed I fit the background for what they 22 the SEC or have public debt. 22 were looking for, meaning some level of public accounting 23 Whereas a compilation would be more for another 23 experience, and an understanding also of the hospitality 24 purpose. If, for example, a company needed to provide numbers 24 industry. 25 to a lender or something like that, generally speaking. 25 At Ernst & Young I had worked on some hospitality Min-U-Script® Ny Supreme Court- Civil (2) Pages 5120 - 5123 3 of 316 FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/04/2024 11:10 PM INDEX NO. 452564/2022 NYSCEF DOC. NO. NYS 1659 General v. Attorney RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/04/2024 Donald Trump November 27, 2023 Hawthorn - by Defendant - Direct (Robert) Page 5124 Hawthorn - by Defendant - Direct (Robert) Page 5126 1 clients as well, so it gave me an opportunity to expand my 1 packages, so to speak, that gave, you know, information on 2 career and work at a private company in a capacity where I had 2 quarterly board meetings to the ownership of the company and 3 the right skill set. 3 directors of the company. 4 Q And from what years did you work at Kerzner 4 Q When you testified a little earlier, you talked about 5 International, sir? 5 the "public accounting background," what do you mean by the 6 A I worked at Kerzner International from 2004 to 2016. 6 term "public accounting"? 7 Q And can you describe for the Court how your role, if 7 A Public accounting is generally referred to, again, a 8 in any way, changed at that time period in Kerzner? 8 firm like Arthur Anderson, Ernst & Young that is engaged in the 9 A Over the course of my employment at Kerzner I again 9 audits or other work of companies that are public registrants. 10 had increasing levels of responsibility. So I started as a 10 Again, so a company that might have stock traded on a stock 11 manager of financial reporting. At the time in 2004 to 2006 11 exchange or public debt. So, generally speaking, that's what 12 the company was a public company. So I was in charge of 12 public accounting means. It deals with companies that have 13 overseeing the financial statements that were filed with the 13 those type of more stringent requirements than a private 14 SEC. 14 enterprise that wouldn't necessarily have those thresholds of 15 In 2006 the company went private on private 15 reporting requirements. 16 transaction. And I continued in a role of financial reporting 16 THE COURT: Mr. Robert, I am not sure everyone 17 but more so as a private company where you report to the 17 can hear you as well as I can. Raise that and raise your 18 ownership interests of the company versus public company 18 voice. 19 reporting. 19 MR. ROBERT: Thank you, Your Honor. First time 20 And then as the -- my role expanded in 2000 -- let's 20 I am accused of that. 21 say 12 and thereafter, I got involved more also in treasury. 21 THE COURT: If you switch places with him you 22 Became appointed as the vice president of treasury, where I 22 are fine. 23 still held financial reporting oversight and responsibilities 23 Q Mr. Hawthorn, you are familiar with a term called 24 because of my knowledge of that area. 24 GAAP, right? 25 But also got involved working with the company's 25 A Yes. Hawthorn - by Defendant - Direct (Robert) Page 5125 Hawthorn - by Defendant - Direct (Robert) Page 5127 1 lenders; working with the company's other stakeholders in terms 1 Q What is GAAP? 2 of financial matters. Not only historical financial matters, 2 A GAAP is an acronym for Generally Accepted Accounting 3 which is what the financial statements oversee or tell, but 3 Principles. 4 also prospective financial matters like, you know, how the 4 Q And what is your general understanding of what GAAP 5 company is capitalized, how the company is working with its 5 is? 6 lenders on debt arrangements and things like that. 6 A GAAP is effectively the rules and guidelines around 7 Q You used a phrase, "vice president of treasury;" what 7 accounting practice in companies that are, you know, recording 8 exactly does that mean or did it mean? 8 books and records and how transactions are recorded and 9 A That meant my role was expanded to not just be with 9 reported. 10 financial reporting, but also work with lenders and also 10 Q Okay. I now want to take you past 2016, where did 11 oversee the cash flow of the company. So in treasury you are 11 you go after Kerzner in 2016? 12 also dealing with banks; you are dealing with lenders; you are 12 A So in February of 2016 I was hired as the Chief 13 dealing with cash flow forecasting for the operations of the 13 Accounting Officer of Trump Hotels based in New York. 14 company. Not necessarily just financial reporting, which is a 14 Q And what is the role -- what was the role of Chief 15 more historical-type role where you are issuing financials of 15 Accounting Officer at the Trump Hotels in New York? 16 what happened in the past. But my role also expanded to be 16 A So my role when I started was reporting to the CEO of 17 more operational in terms of how the company is looking forward 17 Trump Hotels, a gentleman named Eric Danziger at the time. My 18 prospectively and doing its business. 18 role encompassed overseeing all of the financial and accounting 19 Q You testified that you dealt with lenders and 19 aspects of the hotel division of the Trump Organization. 20 stakeholders, what did you mean by stakeholders? 20 Q And how, if in any way, did your title and/or role 21 A Board members of the company. So even though it is a 21 change since that time in 2016? 22 private company, the board was comprised of certain individuals 22 A In 2016 while my title was effectively Chief 23 appointed to direct the operations of the company. So, we 23 Accounting Officer, I was the highest ranking finance and 24 would also, in my role, provide to the board of the company, 24 accounting executive in the hotel division. So, in January of 25 like, quarterly updates. So, I would help provide board 25 2020 my title was effectively updated to Chief Financial Min-U-Script® Ny Supreme Court- Civil (3) Pages 5124 - 5127 4 of 316 FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/04/2024 11:10 PM INDEX NO. 452564/2022 NYSCEF DOC. NO. NYS 1659 General v. Attorney RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/04/2024 Donald Trump November 27, 2023 Hawthorn - by Defendant - Direct (Robert) Page 5128 Hawthorn - by Defendant - Direct (Robert) Page 5130 1 Officer of Trump Hotels. Although I continued to still report 1 A There is some overlap because certain of the hotels 2 to the CEO of Trump Hotels and was effectively doing the same 2 are resort hotels, meaning that they have golf courses on the 3 job. 3 property. And so there is some overlap where the golf course 4 Q Did the scope of your job then change at all from 4 is a component of the resort hotel, and its financials roll up 5 2016 to '20, or just your title? 5 into the reporting of that hotel resort. 6 A The title. The scope was effectively the same. 6 Q And would Doral be one of those? 7 Q Okay. And what, if anything -- withdrawn. 7 A Doral is a good example. 8 Since 2020, what position have you held with the 8 Q Okay. Going to the hotel division specifically, if 9 company? 9 you could explain how the accounting team in the hotel division 10 A So in May of 2022, the CEO of Trump Hotels, Mr. Eric 10 works? 11 Danziger, left the company. So the company promoted me to 11 A I would describe our structure as very decentralized, 12 Chief Operating Officer of Trump Hotels. I still have 12 meaning that each hotel has its own general manager who 13 continuing responsibility over finance and accounting, but I 13 oversees the entire property, and has its own finance 14 now oversee the operational aspects of the hotel portfolio as 14 department that does the day-to-day finance of the hotel. 15 the highest executive level in the hotel division. Not just 15 So, for example, if you mention Doral, Doral has its 16 for finance and accounting but also for operations. 16 own general manager. Doral has its own director of finance. 17 Q And you had mentioned you had report -- withdrawn. 17 Each hotel has its own departments like that to do the 18 When Mr. Danziger -- was he the CEO of the hotel 18 day-to-day accounting and finance work and day-to-day 19 group you said? 19 operations; under the auspices and the direction of the 20 A Yes. 20 corporate office where I reside, but obviously we entrust the 21 Q At that point he was your direct report? 21 teams at the properties to handle the day-to-day of the 22 A Yes. 22 operations. 23 Q Since he left the company, who is your direct report? 23 Q So looking at it from an organizational chart, for 24 A My direct report is Eric Trump. 24 the purpose if you are sitting at the role of the COO of the 25 Q Okay. And that's the same today, correct? 25 hotel division, who is it in the hotels that reports to you? Hawthorn - by Defendant - Direct (Robert) Page 5129 Hawthorn - by Defendant - Direct (Robert) Page 5131 1 A Correct. 1 A All of the general managers of the hotels. So the 2 Q And is there a CEO of the hotel division? 2 leaders of the actual hotel properties. 3 A No, there is no one with that title. But I, as the 3 Q And when you want financial information about these 4 Chief Operating Officer or COO, I am at the highest executive 4 individual hotels, how do you go about getting it? 5 level of the hotel division of the company. 5 A Each individual hotel prepares its own financial 6 Q And I think you described it a few moments ago, but 6 information; maintains its own books and records or general 7 just to be clear, what exactly are the responsibilities of the 7 ledger, is a common term for books and records. So at the 8 Chief Operating Officer of the hotel division? Is it okay if I 8 property level those are all maintained. We have a mechanism 9 call it the hotel division? 9 at the corporate office where we have a reporting timeline 10 A That's accurate. It is not just finance and 10 where the hotels will report to us in a very standardized way. 11 accounting but it is everything related to the hotel division 11 There are monthly financial reports. 12 operations, including sales and marketing; including 12 And our other applicable reports that we will review, 13 operational aspects of how to operate a hotel; how we set rates 13 and discuss and review these with the properties, to get a 14 for room rates; and how we employ, employees over across the 14 better understanding and be, kind of, on top of the operation 15 hotel portfolio. So not just financing accountant, but all 15 and understanding what is happening in the business. 16 operational aspects. 16 Q I know you are familiar with the name Allen 17 Q I referred to the hotel division. What, if any, 17 Weisselberg, correct? 18 other divisions does the Trump Organization have? 18 A Yes. 19 A So broadly speaking there is commercial real estate 19 Q Where was Allen Weisselberg within the corporate 20 in the organization. Then there is hospitality-related assets 20 structure? 21 like hotels. And then similar to that there is a golf 21 A Allen Weisselberg was the Chief Financial Officer of 22 division. So there is private and public golf courses in the 22 the Trump Organization. 23 company. 23 Q And what, if anywhere -- withdrawn. 24 Q And do any of the golf courses fall within your 24 How, if in any way, did your role change after 25 bucket? 25 Mr. Weisselberg left the company? Min-U-Script® Ny Supreme Court- Civil (4) Pages 5128 - 5131 5 of 316 FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/04/2024 11:10 PM INDEX NO. 452564/2022 NYSCEF DOC. NO. NYS 1659 General v. Attorney RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/04/2024 Donald Trump November 27, 2023 Hawthorn - by Defendant - Direct (Robert) Page 5132 Hawthorn - by Defendant - Direct (Robert) Page 5134 1 A After Mr. Weisselberg left the company I have been 1 golf, so that you could consistently compare across every golf 2 called upon from time to time as needed to assist with how the 2 course the operations, the performance and understand, if 3 company is operating generally in other divisions, so not just 3 everything is booked the same way and the same accounts, you 4 the hotel division. And I have been called upon to, kind of, 4 can have consistency. That's an example. 5 ask how we could replicate certain practices and procedures 5 Q You used the phrase, "chart of accounts," what do you 6 that we do in the hotel division across the company. 6 mean by that? 7 Q And if you could add a little more detail to that? 7 A The chart of accounts is the, for lack of a better 8 A Sure. I mean, I think the hotel division, in my 8 term, the books and records of the company, where all of the 9 humble opinion, because I have -- I am overseeing it, we have a 9 debits and credits go when you book journal entries. So there 10 good set of procedures and controls and ways we go about doing 10 is typically a number assigned to a certain general ledger 11 the day-to-day business in the operations. So, for example, we 11 account. A description assigned to a certain general ledger 12 have a standardized chart of accounts. I know it sounds kind 12 account that comprises the assets, liabilities and equity of 13 of boring, but if every hotel has the same general chart of 13 the books and records of the trial balance. And so it is much 14 accounts, it is easy to have consistency and roll up across the 14 more efficient as a corporate oversight to evaluate the 15 company. 15 performance of your portfolio if everyone is on the same chart. 16 And do you want me to keep explaining? 16 Now, that's not to say that each entity had anything 17 Q Let me break it down a little. 17 wrong with it. It is just that each entity maybe booked things 18 A Okay. 18 in a different account than a different entity. So if you are 19 Q Did there come a time that someone within the Trump 19 trying to cross compare certain things, it may not be as 20 Organization asked you to assist in these other projects after 20 noticeable because they are not on an apples to apples basis. 21 Mr. Weisselberg left? 21 So this is kind of inherent, you know, efficiency in the 22 A Yes. I think Eric Trump has asked me -- well, I know 22 organization and the golf division similar to what we had in 23 Eric Trump has asked me to assist in other matters where I can 23 the hotel division as an example. 24 be of assistance to the company. 24 Q Has there been any new accounting software that has 25 Q Okay. And just so that we are clear, that assistance 25 been used as a result of your involvement in these other Hawthorn - by Defendant - Direct (Robert) Page 5133 Hawthorn - by Defendant - Direct (Robert) Page 5135 1 is in what form? 1 divisions? 2 A It is helping to utilize certain of the 2 A So, in addition to the chart of accounts project at 3 characteristics of the hotel division and other ways to create, 3 golf, which is utilizing the same software which is golf 4 you know, more efficiencies, better procedures and practices 4 specific, there is an undertaking ongoing now at the Trump 5 across the company as a whole. 5 Organization corporate accounting level to input new general 6 Q You talked about uniformity, and I think you used a 6 ledger accounting software, so to be more modern, to be more 7 phrase "roll up" a couple of minutes ago. What did you 7 like the hotel division. Meaning in a way that today in 2023 8 discover when you were asked to help -- I'll use the word 8 there is software packages available that helps people do their 9 "modernize" the other divisions? 9 jobs a little bit easier, more consistent and have more 10 A So as an example, I think as I was explaining before, 10 control, standardization. 11 the hotel division has the benefit of already an existing 11 So we have a -- I am assisting with a project at the 12 structure where every hotel is accounted for in the same way. 12 corporate office accounting level to put in a new system that 13 As I was asked to, kind of, assist in other areas of the 13 will help in this effort to improve the efficiency and the 14 business, for example in the golf division, which is similar to 14 reporting and the technical capabilities of the -- the other 15 the hospitality division hotels, the golf division at the time 15 divisions of the company, like the commercial real estate and 16 of, let's say, summer of 2021, didn't have that same 16 the corporate office and that sort of thing. 17 uniformity. As the golf division grew over time, golf courses 17 Q When you talk about the corporate office, what are 18 were acquired and the property level comptrollers entrusted to 18 you referring to? 19 oversee the books and records, either continued to use the same 19 A So, the corporate office resides generally at 20 chart of accounts that they had on a previous ownership, or had 20 725 Fifth Avenue in New York, which has a back office 21 discretion in how they could book transactions in a chart of 21 accounting function. There is a team that oversees those 22 accounts that made sense for their property. 22 assets. Whereas I oversee the hospitality hotel assets. 23 So as an example, one of the projects that I helped 23 Q And what is the difference between the corporate 24 to oversee over the last year and a half with some team members 24 accounting level you used -- you phrased, as opposed to how 25 from my team, is to help standardize the chart of accounts for 25 things work at the hotels or golf courses? Min-U-Script® Ny Supreme Court- Civil (5) Pages 5132 - 5135 6 of 316 FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/04/2024 11:10 PM INDEX NO. 452564/2022 NYSCEF DOC. NO. NYS 1659 General v. Attorney RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/04/2024 Donald Trump November 27, 2023 Hawthorn - by Defendant - Direct (Robert) Page 5136 Hawthorn - by Defendant - Direct (Robert) Page 5138 1 A Maybe to put it in the appropriate context, that was 1 Q What were the circumstances surrounding that, sir? 2 kind of the corporate office's, kind of, generally referred to 2 A So, just for perspective and background, right, the 3 the prior regime of Jeff McConney and Allen Weisselberg. 3 way that the corporate office functioned, had previously 4 Whereas now we have other individuals in certain roles 4 worked, is that there was only -- if you are only paying with 5 overseeing the commercial assets, the real estate assets of the 5 check and you only have three signers who can sign checks, you 6 portfolio. 6 are very limited on how you can make disbursements. And the 7 Q And the commercial assets are no longer governed by 7 three signers that were always entrusted with overseeing the 8 the corporate accounting department, or are they? 8 bank accounts were Allen Weisselberg, Donald Trump Jr. and Eric 9 A They are. 9 Trump. So, in practice, Allen Weisselberg in his role, to my 10 Q Is there a distinction between who is running -- who 10 understanding, would be the one that would review check 11 is in the corporate accounting department versus who is at the 11 disbursements and sign them so that they would go out, because 12 golf courses and hotels? If so, what is that? 12 that was his role. 13 A There is. So we have, again, myself in hotels. We 13 I guess at the time of summer of 2021 Allen 14 have an individual in golf. We have individuals in the 14 Weisselberg was no longer in the role of Chief Financial 15 corporate accounting function today. 15 Officer. He was removed from those duties. So, when the 16 You know, for example, I think you may know Donna 16 operation keeps needing to run, checks need to be signed. So 17 Kidder. She continues to be in the capacity of an assistant 17 now you only have two signers who can sign checks, Donald J. 18 comptroller. We have a director of finance now that is running 18 Trump Jr. and Eric Trump. So I recall walking into Eric 19 the oversight of that department, that runs that day-to-day. 19 Trump's office and he called me in to assist, and he had a 20 Q What, if any, involvement did you have in the last 20 stack of checks to sign that was very high. 21 few years with the check issuing system at the Trump 21 And he said: Well, what do I do with all of these? 22 Organization? 22 Because typically Eric would never sign checks. It would be 23 A Can you repeat the question? 23 Allen. Allen would sign all of the checks and Eric would work 24 Q Sure. What, if any, involvement have you had in the 24 on the operation. But if you need to pay vendors, who is going 25 last few years with the check issuing system of the Trump 25 to sign the check? It is really Eric or Don. Hawthorn - by Defendant - Direct (Robert) Page 5137 Hawthorn - by Defendant - Direct (Robert) Page 5139 1 Organization? 1 So Eric came to me and he said: Well, Mark, how do 2 A By check issuing system you are referring to 2 you do this in the hotel division? 3 disbursements? 3 I said: Well, we don't do it like this. We pay 4 Q Yes, disbursements, paying bills. 4 through ACH. We pay through virtual means, electronic means. 5 A Sure. So as an example of, kind of, how the company 5 We have systems and processes that are available and tools that 6 used to do things versus how it does it now, the company under 6 are available to the company to modernize, kind of, the 7 the prior regime, you know, ran as it did as a family run 7 functionality. So that's how I got involved in that project. 8 enterprise using very basic functions. For example, to pay 8 So commensurate with, kind of, the upgrade of the 9 bills and vendors everything was always paid via paper check. 9 general ledger package of the Trump Organization at large and 10 That's -- that worked in the 1980s and it still works today. 10 the corporate office, my role has helped assist in replicating 11 But there is other ways to get vendors paid more quickly, more 11 some of the hotel division efficiencies to the organization so 12 timely, more accurately. So, I was asked to assist in, kind 12 that we are able to pay vendors in a more efficient way. Saves 13 of, helping the corporate office, kind of, maybe update 13 a lot of time and resources when you are not needing to put a 14 modernize the way things are done, because we do things in the 14 stamp on envelopes and trace and track down outstanding checks. 15 hotel division that is more, let's say, in the way companies 15 So, kind of one of the initiatives I have helped with. And 16 operate today. 16 Eric Trump, I know, is proud of being as paperless as we can in 17 Q Did there come a point in time someone at the Trump 17 disbursements. 18 Organization specifically asked you to assist with this 18 Q You have heard of something during the course of this 19 disbursement issue? 19 trial called a Statement of Financial Condition, correct, sir? 20 A Yes. 20 A Yes. 21 Q And who was that person? 21 Q And did you have any involvement in the preparation 22 A Eric Trump. 22 of President Trump's Statement of Financial Condition? 23 Q And what were the circumstances surrounding -- first 23 A I did not. 24 of all, when was that, if you recall? 24 Q Did there come a time that you became aware of a 25 A It was probably in the summer of 2021. 25 document called President Trump's Statement of Financial Min-U-Script® Ny Supreme Court- Civil (6) Pages 5136 - 5139 7 of 316 FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/04/2024 11:10 PM INDEX NO. 452564/2022 NYSCEF DOC. NO. NYS 1659 General v. Attorney RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/04/2024 Donald Trump November 27, 2023 Hawthorn - by Defendant - Direct (Robert) Page 5140 M. Hawthorn - by Defense - Direct (Mr. Robert) Page 5142 1 Condition? 1 company. It's not required by any lender currently, and/or any 2 A Yes. 2 other constituency. 3 Q And when was that approximately? 3 Q Okay. 4 A In connection with one of the hotel audits that I was 4 I want to switch topics for a minute and talk to you 5 working on. There was a request from one of those auditors to 5 about Mazars. Are you familiar with a company known as Mazars? 6 get some more information about the parent company of the 6 A Yes. 7 hotel. And I was doing some diligence to try to provide the 7 Q And what is Mazars? 8 best available information. In doing so, I was aware that 8 A Mazars is an accounting firm. It was the main 9 there was this document that existed. And I helped to 9 accounting firm of The Trump Organization when I started in 10 facilitate a meeting with the accounting team in the hotel -- 10 2016, and I guess prior to that they had a long standing 11 that was doing the audit of the hotel, and the accounting team 11 relationship with The Trump Organization to be the, um, you 12 that was familiar with the statement, so that they could 12