Preview
FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/27/2023 02:27 PM INDEX NO. 158282/2022
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 23 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/27/2023
EXHIBIT E
FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/27/2023 02:27 PM INDEX NO. 158282/2022
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 23 Executive Session RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/27/2023
April 14, 2021 1
·1
·2· · · · · · · · · · ·POLICE PENSION FUND
·3· · · · · · · · · · · · ·ARTICLE II
·4· · · · · · · · · · · EXECUTIVE SESSION
·5
·6· · · · · · · · · ·233 Broadway (Webinar)
·7· · · · · · · · · · ·New York, New York
·8· · · · · · · · · · · ·April 14, 2021
·9· · · · · · · · · · · · ·10:31 a.m.
10
11· · ·BOARD OF TRUSTEES:
12· · ·MS. STEPHANIE ZIMBERG
13· · · · · New York City Police Department
14· · ·MS. CYNTHIA COLLINS
15· · · · · New York City Mayor's Office
16· · ·MR. PHILIP DUKES
17· · · · · New York City Department of Finance
18· · ·MS. SUSANNAH VICKERS
19· · · · · New York City Comptroller's Office
20· · ·MR. JOHN DORSA
21· · · · · New York City Comptroller's Office
22· · ·LIEUTENANT LOUIS TURCO
23· · · · · President, LBA
24
25
U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC 001
713-653-7100
FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/27/2023 02:27 PM INDEX NO. 158282/2022
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 23 Executive Session RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/27/2023
April 14, 2021 2
·1
·2· · ·SERGEANT ANTHONY BORELLI
·3· · · · · Financial Secretary, SBA
·4· · ·DETECTIVE KENNY SPARKS,
·5· · · · · Secretary, DEA
·6· · ·POLICE OFFICER JOSEPH ALEJANDRO
·7· · · · · Second Vice President, PBA
·8· · ·POLICE OFFICER BETTY CARRADERO
·9· · · · · Trustee, PBA
10
11· · ·PRESENT BY INVITATION:
12· · ·EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR KEVIN HOLLORAN
13· · · · · Chief Administrator
14· · · · · New York City Police Pension Fund
15· · ·DEP. EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR ROBERT SENS-CASTET
16· · · · · Deputy Administrator
17· · · · · New York City Police Pension Fund
18· · ·MS. NICOLE GIAMBARRESE, ESQ.
19· · · · · New York City Police Pension Fund
20· · ·MS. MARTA ROSS, ESQ.
21· · · · · New York City Law Department
22· · ·MS. SHARON STIEFEL, ESQ.
23· · · · · New York City Law Department
24
25
U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC 002
713-653-7100
FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/27/2023 02:27 PM INDEX NO. 158282/2022
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 23 Executive Session RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/27/2023
April 14, 2021 3
·1
·2· · ·PRESENT BY INVITATION:
·3· · ·SERGEANT ANGELO TRANTAFILIDIS
·4· · · · · New York City Police Pension Fund
·5· · ·MR. NICHOLAS CIFUNI, ESQ.
·6· · · · · Attorney for CEA/LBA/SBA/DEA
·7· · ·MR. GARY DeROSA
·8· · · · · Consultant to SBA
·9· · ·MR. JEFFREY WARD
10· · · · · Consultant to DEA
11· · ·MR. CHRISTOPHER McGRATH
12· · · · · Consultant to PBA
13· · ·MR. DAMIAN LAUGHER
14· · · · · New York City Department of Finance
15· · ·MR. STANLEY THOMAS
16· · · · · New York City Police Pension Fund
17· · ·MS. CARIANA ANDRE
18· · · · · New York City Police Pension Fund
19· · ·MS. CANDI MILLER
20· · · · · New York City Police Pension Fund
21· · ·PRESENT BY INVITATION:
22· · ·SERGEANT MICHAEL REESE
23· · · · · Medical Division
24· · ·MR. VINCENT DIAZ
25· · · · · New York City Police Pension Fund
U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC 003
713-653-7100
FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/27/2023 02:27 PM INDEX NO. 158282/2022
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 23 Executive Session RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/27/2023
April 14, 2021 4
·1
·2· · ·PRESENT BY INVITATION:
·3· · ·MS. ANDI VINCIQUERRA
·4· · · · · New York City Police Pension Fund
·5· · ·MR. JOHN FLYNN
·6· · · · · New York City Police Pension Fund
·7· · ·DETECTIVE HANSA RANDALL
·8· · · · · New York City Police Pension Fund
·9· · ·BETTY AMANTE
10· · · · · New York City Police Pension Fund
11· · ·JOHN FIGONES
12· · · · · New York City Police Pension Fund
13· · ·MS. YAFFA KAPLAN
14· · · · · Court Reporter
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC 004
713-653-7100 YVer1f
FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/27/2023 02:27 PM INDEX NO. 158282/2022
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 23 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/27/2023
·1· · · · · · · · · · · Executive Session
·2·
·3·
·4·
·5·
·6·
·7·
·8·
·9·
10·
11·
12·
13·
14·
15·
16·
17·
18· · · · · · · · OFFICER ALEJANDRO:· Medical Board
19· · · · · reaffirms approval of ordinary disability,
20· · · · · accident denied for the following:· 3-S-3,
21· · · · · RETIRED DETECTIVE ELLIS DELOREN.
22· · · · · · · · DETECTIVE SPARKS:· Second call, Kenny
23· · · · · Sparks.
24· · · · · · · · OFFICER ALEJANDRO:· Second call, DEA.
25· · ·
005
FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/27/2023 02:27 PM INDEX NO. 158282/2022
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 23 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/27/2023
·1· · · · · · · · · · · Executive Session
·2· ·
·3· ·
·4· ·
·5· ·
·6· · · · · · · · OFFICER ALEJANDRO:· SUP-3.· Okay.
·7· · · · · SUP-3, second call, DEA.· 3-S-3, RETIRED
·8· · · · · DETECTIVE ELLIS DELOREN.
·9· · · · · · · · MR. CIFUNI:· We had asked for a second
10· · · · · call on this one.· So just to do a little
11· · · · · recap on this one, this is a Heart Bill/Stroke
12· · · · · case that really put the Medical Board in a
13· · · · · little bit of a position on this one where
14· · · · · they originally approved this case saying that
15· · · · · they couldn't effectively rebut it.· It came
16· · · · · back and Cindy had some questions because
17· · · · · there was some mention of a possible
18· · · · · congenital problem and Cindy also asked for
19· · · · · the Law Department memo, City lawyer's memo to
20· · · · · go back with some direction by Marta and then
21· · · · · later on by Bryan on the interpretation of the
22· · · · · status of the Heart Bill and Stroke Bill as
23· · · · · been interpreted by the courts.
24· · · · · · · · And the Medical Board then rescinded and
25· · · · · they disapproved it but they disapproved it in
006
FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/27/2023 02:27 PM INDEX NO. 158282/2022
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 23 Executive Session RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/27/2023
April 14, 2021 42
·1· · · · · · · · · · · Executive Session
·2· · · · · a way that both times now that is inconsistent
·3· · · · · with my opinion of the reading of the cases
·4· · · · · and more importantly with the highest court in
·5· · · · · the state, the Court of Appeals has said under
·6· · · · · Bitchatchi with respect to what kind of
·7· · · · · rebuttal should effectively occur.
·8· · · · · · · · So looking at some of the cases, and we
·9· · · · · can start with the most recent case, which was
10· · · · · a judicial remand which was on the calendar
11· · · · · today, it was a Heart Bill case.· In that
12· · · · · case, what it specifically said is that a
13· · · · · rebuttal that just relies on the absence of
14· · · · · evidence is insufficient.· And that's
15· · · · · essentially why both at the lower court and at
16· · · · · the Court of Appeals they overturned that case
17· · · · · and granted accident disability.
18· · · · · · · · That same theory, it was put forth in
19· · · · · Bitchatchi when they were evaluating the first
20· · · · · World Trade Center presumption case some years
21· · · · · ago, and what the Court of Appeals said is we
22· · · · · know very well how the presumptions work from
23· · · · · how the Heart Bill has worked, and essentially
24· · · · · once a disability has been determined, the
25· · · · · burden switches to the Medical Board for the
U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC 007
713-653-7100 YVer1f
FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/27/2023 02:27 PM INDEX NO. 158282/2022
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 23 Executive Session RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/27/2023
April 14, 2021 43
·1· · · · · · · · · · · Executive Session
·2· · · · · Medical Board to come up with competent
·3· · · · · evidence in the record.· They can't rely on a
·4· · · · · lack of evidence.
·5· · · · · · · · So what they specifically said is when
·6· · · · · it comes to a statutory presumption, a pension
·7· · · · · fund cannot deny ADR benefits by relying
·8· · · · · solely on the absence of evidence which ties
·9· · · · · to the disability or the conditions.· So
10· · · · · that's exactly what happened here with Ellis
11· · · · · Deloren.· The Medical Board relying on
12· · · · · information and admittedly, they said it
13· · · · · themselves, their experts, and things medical,
14· · · · · not legal, and this is getting a little bit
15· · · · · challenging for them because they were
16· · · · · evaluating statutes and law and case law
17· · · · · interpretation and they quite frankly threw
18· · · · · their hands up and said well, look, this is
19· · · · · kind of what we are being told by the Law
20· · · · · Department.
21· · · · · · · · Let's be honest.· The Law Department, no
22· · · · · offense to them, but they are the City's
23· · · · · lawyer.· When they go up on these cases like
24· · · · · the judicial remand that just came back, they
25· · · · · are putting forth a persuasive argument.· They
U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC 008
713-653-7100 YVer1f
FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/27/2023 02:27 PM INDEX NO. 158282/2022
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 23 Executive Session RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/27/2023
April 14, 2021 44
·1· · · · · · · · · · · Executive Session
·2· · · · · are interpreting these cases from their
·3· · · · · impression, from their perspective as
·4· · · · · defending the City's position, and my position
·5· · · · · on some of these decisions are quite
·6· · · · · different.· And they rely on Titza and Titza I
·7· · · · · think is not the law of the land when it comes
·8· · · · · to stroke because the law of the land when it
·9· · · · · comes to rebutting is more important and
10· · · · · that's what the Court of Appeals has put forth
11· · · · · in Bitchatchi and that's what should be
12· · · · · followed here.· So what I asking is for the
13· · · · · trustees to take a look at this case and
14· · · · · upgrade this case based on ineffective
15· · · · · rebuttal.· The case has already been remanded
16· · · · · twice.· Originally the Medical Board says yes,
17· · · · · because I believe they evaluated it in line
18· · · · · with Bitchatchi and in line with the way they
19· · · · · were under the impression that they had to,
20· · · · · which is come up with competent evidence in
21· · · · · the record to rebut, not rely on the absence
22· · · · · of evidence which they now have done twice and
23· · · · · again, they were persuaded a bit by a memo
24· · · · · that was from the city lawyers and by some
25· · · · · conversation and statements made on the record
U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC 009
713-653-7100 YVer1f
FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/27/2023 02:27 PM INDEX NO. 158282/2022
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 23 Executive Session RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/27/2023
April 14, 2021 45
·1· · · · · · · · · · · Executive Session
·2· · · · · by the city lawyers with respect to those
·3· · · · · cases, but again, no actual evidence has been
·4· · · · · presented, which denied that this member's
·5· · · · · stroke was caused or not caused by the
·6· · · · · stresses of police work.
·7· · · · · · · · MS. COLLINS:· Nick, I am going to ask
·8· · · · · that we table that so that we have an
·9· · · · · opportunity to look at the Medical Board
10· · · · · report because I didn't dive into this one.
11· · · · · We didn't know that you were going to ask for
12· · · · · an upgrade, and also that I can ask Law to
13· · · · · consider your arguments and have them address
14· · · · · the standards that you are setting forth at
15· · · · · the next Board meeting.· So I would ask for a
16· · · · · table so that we can have an informed and
17· · · · · fulsome discussion at the May meeting.
18· · · · · · · · MS. ZIMBERG:· Stephanie Zimberg. I
19· · · · · believe that it has been remanded twice, once
20· · · · · by the Mayor and once by the DEA.
21· · · · · · · · MR. CIFUNI:· Thank you for that,
22· · · · · Stephanie, but I think that we got the Medical
23· · · · · Board in a bit of a position here, and I don't
24· · · · · think that there is any evidence necessarily
25· · · · · that's going to change the matter.· They have
U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC 010
713-653-7100 YVer1f
FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/27/2023 02:27 PM INDEX NO. 158282/2022
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 23 Executive Session RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/27/2023
April 14, 2021 46
·1· · · · · · · · · · · Executive Session
·2· · · · · already evaluated all that.· There is not
·3· · · · · evidence that they can come up with to rebut
·4· · · · · their opinion that the law is putting them in
·5· · · · · a position to say no, and I think it's just an
·6· · · · · erroneous opinion.· It's not in line with the
·7· · · · · Bitchatchi case and the Bitchatchi rule with
·8· · · · · respect to effective rebuttals in any
·9· · · · · statutory presumption case, be it World Trade
10· · · · · Center, be it heart, be it stroke.
11· · · · · · · · Titza did not put forth a special rule
12· · · · · for stroke presumptions.· The rule is the same
13· · · · · for every presumption and Bitchatchi set forth
14· · · · · what that rule is which has been a long rule
15· · · · · that was always a practice, and what
16· · · · · Bitchatchi actually did is they borrowed from
17· · · · · the Heart Bill and said you have to have
18· · · · · credible evidence.· You can't deny solely on
19· · · · · the absence of something.
20· · · · · · · · MS. COLLINS:· Right.· We understand.· So
21· · · · · that's a table.· So that's a request for a
22· · · · · table at this point.
23· · · · · · · · MR. CIFUNI:· I was just addressing
24· · · · · Stephanie's offer for a remand.· Thank you.
25· · · · · · · · MS. ZIMBERG:· I wasn't offering a
U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC 011
713-653-7100 YVer1f
FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/27/2023 02:27 PM INDEX NO. 158282/2022
NYSCEF DOC. NO. 23 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/27/2023
·1· · · · · · · · · · · Executive Session
·2· · · · · remand.· I just wanted to correct the record
·3· · · · · that it was one remand for each side, Nick.
·4· · · · · · · · MR. CIFUNI:· Thank you.
·5· · · · · · · · OFFICER ALEJANDRO:· So okay.· So that's
·6· · · · · a table.
·7· · · ·
012
Preview
FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/27/2023 02:27 PM INDEX NO. 158282/2022 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 23 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/27/2023 EXHIBIT E FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/27/2023 02:27 PM INDEX NO. 158282/2022 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 23 Executive Session RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/27/2023 April 14, 2021 1 ·1 ·2· · · · · · · · · · ·POLICE PENSION FUND ·3· · · · · · · · · · · · ·ARTICLE II ·4· · · · · · · · · · · EXECUTIVE SESSION ·5 ·6· · · · · · · · · ·233 Broadway (Webinar) ·7· · · · · · · · · · ·New York, New York ·8· · · · · · · · · · · ·April 14, 2021 ·9· · · · · · · · · · · · ·10:31 a.m. 10 11· · ·BOARD OF TRUSTEES: 12· · ·MS. STEPHANIE ZIMBERG 13· · · · · New York City Police Department 14· · ·MS. CYNTHIA COLLINS 15· · · · · New York City Mayor's Office 16· · ·MR. PHILIP DUKES 17· · · · · New York City Department of Finance 18· · ·MS. SUSANNAH VICKERS 19· · · · · New York City Comptroller's Office 20· · ·MR. JOHN DORSA 21· · · · · New York City Comptroller's Office 22· · ·LIEUTENANT LOUIS TURCO 23· · · · · President, LBA 24 25 U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC 001 713-653-7100 FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/27/2023 02:27 PM INDEX NO. 158282/2022 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 23 Executive Session RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/27/2023 April 14, 2021 2 ·1 ·2· · ·SERGEANT ANTHONY BORELLI ·3· · · · · Financial Secretary, SBA ·4· · ·DETECTIVE KENNY SPARKS, ·5· · · · · Secretary, DEA ·6· · ·POLICE OFFICER JOSEPH ALEJANDRO ·7· · · · · Second Vice President, PBA ·8· · ·POLICE OFFICER BETTY CARRADERO ·9· · · · · Trustee, PBA 10 11· · ·PRESENT BY INVITATION: 12· · ·EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR KEVIN HOLLORAN 13· · · · · Chief Administrator 14· · · · · New York City Police Pension Fund 15· · ·DEP. EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR ROBERT SENS-CASTET 16· · · · · Deputy Administrator 17· · · · · New York City Police Pension Fund 18· · ·MS. NICOLE GIAMBARRESE, ESQ. 19· · · · · New York City Police Pension Fund 20· · ·MS. MARTA ROSS, ESQ. 21· · · · · New York City Law Department 22· · ·MS. SHARON STIEFEL, ESQ. 23· · · · · New York City Law Department 24 25 U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC 002 713-653-7100 FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/27/2023 02:27 PM INDEX NO. 158282/2022 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 23 Executive Session RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/27/2023 April 14, 2021 3 ·1 ·2· · ·PRESENT BY INVITATION: ·3· · ·SERGEANT ANGELO TRANTAFILIDIS ·4· · · · · New York City Police Pension Fund ·5· · ·MR. NICHOLAS CIFUNI, ESQ. ·6· · · · · Attorney for CEA/LBA/SBA/DEA ·7· · ·MR. GARY DeROSA ·8· · · · · Consultant to SBA ·9· · ·MR. JEFFREY WARD 10· · · · · Consultant to DEA 11· · ·MR. CHRISTOPHER McGRATH 12· · · · · Consultant to PBA 13· · ·MR. DAMIAN LAUGHER 14· · · · · New York City Department of Finance 15· · ·MR. STANLEY THOMAS 16· · · · · New York City Police Pension Fund 17· · ·MS. CARIANA ANDRE 18· · · · · New York City Police Pension Fund 19· · ·MS. CANDI MILLER 20· · · · · New York City Police Pension Fund 21· · ·PRESENT BY INVITATION: 22· · ·SERGEANT MICHAEL REESE 23· · · · · Medical Division 24· · ·MR. VINCENT DIAZ 25· · · · · New York City Police Pension Fund U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC 003 713-653-7100 FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/27/2023 02:27 PM INDEX NO. 158282/2022 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 23 Executive Session RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/27/2023 April 14, 2021 4 ·1 ·2· · ·PRESENT BY INVITATION: ·3· · ·MS. ANDI VINCIQUERRA ·4· · · · · New York City Police Pension Fund ·5· · ·MR. JOHN FLYNN ·6· · · · · New York City Police Pension Fund ·7· · ·DETECTIVE HANSA RANDALL ·8· · · · · New York City Police Pension Fund ·9· · ·BETTY AMANTE 10· · · · · New York City Police Pension Fund 11· · ·JOHN FIGONES 12· · · · · New York City Police Pension Fund 13· · ·MS. YAFFA KAPLAN 14· · · · · Court Reporter 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC 004 713-653-7100 YVer1f FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/27/2023 02:27 PM INDEX NO. 158282/2022 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 23 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/27/2023 ·1· · · · · · · · · · · Executive Session ·2· ·3· ·4· ·5· ·6· ·7· ·8· ·9· 10· 11· 12· 13· 14· 15· 16· 17· 18· · · · · · · · OFFICER ALEJANDRO:· Medical Board 19· · · · · reaffirms approval of ordinary disability, 20· · · · · accident denied for the following:· 3-S-3, 21· · · · · RETIRED DETECTIVE ELLIS DELOREN. 22· · · · · · · · DETECTIVE SPARKS:· Second call, Kenny 23· · · · · Sparks. 24· · · · · · · · OFFICER ALEJANDRO:· Second call, DEA. 25· · · 005 FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/27/2023 02:27 PM INDEX NO. 158282/2022 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 23 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/27/2023 ·1· · · · · · · · · · · Executive Session ·2· · ·3· · ·4· · ·5· · ·6· · · · · · · · OFFICER ALEJANDRO:· SUP-3.· Okay. ·7· · · · · SUP-3, second call, DEA.· 3-S-3, RETIRED ·8· · · · · DETECTIVE ELLIS DELOREN. ·9· · · · · · · · MR. CIFUNI:· We had asked for a second 10· · · · · call on this one.· So just to do a little 11· · · · · recap on this one, this is a Heart Bill/Stroke 12· · · · · case that really put the Medical Board in a 13· · · · · little bit of a position on this one where 14· · · · · they originally approved this case saying that 15· · · · · they couldn't effectively rebut it.· It came 16· · · · · back and Cindy had some questions because 17· · · · · there was some mention of a possible 18· · · · · congenital problem and Cindy also asked for 19· · · · · the Law Department memo, City lawyer's memo to 20· · · · · go back with some direction by Marta and then 21· · · · · later on by Bryan on the interpretation of the 22· · · · · status of the Heart Bill and Stroke Bill as 23· · · · · been interpreted by the courts. 24· · · · · · · · And the Medical Board then rescinded and 25· · · · · they disapproved it but they disapproved it in 006 FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/27/2023 02:27 PM INDEX NO. 158282/2022 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 23 Executive Session RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/27/2023 April 14, 2021 42 ·1· · · · · · · · · · · Executive Session ·2· · · · · a way that both times now that is inconsistent ·3· · · · · with my opinion of the reading of the cases ·4· · · · · and more importantly with the highest court in ·5· · · · · the state, the Court of Appeals has said under ·6· · · · · Bitchatchi with respect to what kind of ·7· · · · · rebuttal should effectively occur. ·8· · · · · · · · So looking at some of the cases, and we ·9· · · · · can start with the most recent case, which was 10· · · · · a judicial remand which was on the calendar 11· · · · · today, it was a Heart Bill case.· In that 12· · · · · case, what it specifically said is that a 13· · · · · rebuttal that just relies on the absence of 14· · · · · evidence is insufficient.· And that's 15· · · · · essentially why both at the lower court and at 16· · · · · the Court of Appeals they overturned that case 17· · · · · and granted accident disability. 18· · · · · · · · That same theory, it was put forth in 19· · · · · Bitchatchi when they were evaluating the first 20· · · · · World Trade Center presumption case some years 21· · · · · ago, and what the Court of Appeals said is we 22· · · · · know very well how the presumptions work from 23· · · · · how the Heart Bill has worked, and essentially 24· · · · · once a disability has been determined, the 25· · · · · burden switches to the Medical Board for the U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC 007 713-653-7100 YVer1f FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/27/2023 02:27 PM INDEX NO. 158282/2022 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 23 Executive Session RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/27/2023 April 14, 2021 43 ·1· · · · · · · · · · · Executive Session ·2· · · · · Medical Board to come up with competent ·3· · · · · evidence in the record.· They can't rely on a ·4· · · · · lack of evidence. ·5· · · · · · · · So what they specifically said is when ·6· · · · · it comes to a statutory presumption, a pension ·7· · · · · fund cannot deny ADR benefits by relying ·8· · · · · solely on the absence of evidence which ties ·9· · · · · to the disability or the conditions.· So 10· · · · · that's exactly what happened here with Ellis 11· · · · · Deloren.· The Medical Board relying on 12· · · · · information and admittedly, they said it 13· · · · · themselves, their experts, and things medical, 14· · · · · not legal, and this is getting a little bit 15· · · · · challenging for them because they were 16· · · · · evaluating statutes and law and case law 17· · · · · interpretation and they quite frankly threw 18· · · · · their hands up and said well, look, this is 19· · · · · kind of what we are being told by the Law 20· · · · · Department. 21· · · · · · · · Let's be honest.· The Law Department, no 22· · · · · offense to them, but they are the City's 23· · · · · lawyer.· When they go up on these cases like 24· · · · · the judicial remand that just came back, they 25· · · · · are putting forth a persuasive argument.· They U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC 008 713-653-7100 YVer1f FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/27/2023 02:27 PM INDEX NO. 158282/2022 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 23 Executive Session RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/27/2023 April 14, 2021 44 ·1· · · · · · · · · · · Executive Session ·2· · · · · are interpreting these cases from their ·3· · · · · impression, from their perspective as ·4· · · · · defending the City's position, and my position ·5· · · · · on some of these decisions are quite ·6· · · · · different.· And they rely on Titza and Titza I ·7· · · · · think is not the law of the land when it comes ·8· · · · · to stroke because the law of the land when it ·9· · · · · comes to rebutting is more important and 10· · · · · that's what the Court of Appeals has put forth 11· · · · · in Bitchatchi and that's what should be 12· · · · · followed here.· So what I asking is for the 13· · · · · trustees to take a look at this case and 14· · · · · upgrade this case based on ineffective 15· · · · · rebuttal.· The case has already been remanded 16· · · · · twice.· Originally the Medical Board says yes, 17· · · · · because I believe they evaluated it in line 18· · · · · with Bitchatchi and in line with the way they 19· · · · · were under the impression that they had to, 20· · · · · which is come up with competent evidence in 21· · · · · the record to rebut, not rely on the absence 22· · · · · of evidence which they now have done twice and 23· · · · · again, they were persuaded a bit by a memo 24· · · · · that was from the city lawyers and by some 25· · · · · conversation and statements made on the record U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC 009 713-653-7100 YVer1f FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/27/2023 02:27 PM INDEX NO. 158282/2022 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 23 Executive Session RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/27/2023 April 14, 2021 45 ·1· · · · · · · · · · · Executive Session ·2· · · · · by the city lawyers with respect to those ·3· · · · · cases, but again, no actual evidence has been ·4· · · · · presented, which denied that this member's ·5· · · · · stroke was caused or not caused by the ·6· · · · · stresses of police work. ·7· · · · · · · · MS. COLLINS:· Nick, I am going to ask ·8· · · · · that we table that so that we have an ·9· · · · · opportunity to look at the Medical Board 10· · · · · report because I didn't dive into this one. 11· · · · · We didn't know that you were going to ask for 12· · · · · an upgrade, and also that I can ask Law to 13· · · · · consider your arguments and have them address 14· · · · · the standards that you are setting forth at 15· · · · · the next Board meeting.· So I would ask for a 16· · · · · table so that we can have an informed and 17· · · · · fulsome discussion at the May meeting. 18· · · · · · · · MS. ZIMBERG:· Stephanie Zimberg. I 19· · · · · believe that it has been remanded twice, once 20· · · · · by the Mayor and once by the DEA. 21· · · · · · · · MR. CIFUNI:· Thank you for that, 22· · · · · Stephanie, but I think that we got the Medical 23· · · · · Board in a bit of a position here, and I don't 24· · · · · think that there is any evidence necessarily 25· · · · · that's going to change the matter.· They have U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC 010 713-653-7100 YVer1f FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/27/2023 02:27 PM INDEX NO. 158282/2022 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 23 Executive Session RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/27/2023 April 14, 2021 46 ·1· · · · · · · · · · · Executive Session ·2· · · · · already evaluated all that.· There is not ·3· · · · · evidence that they can come up with to rebut ·4· · · · · their opinion that the law is putting them in ·5· · · · · a position to say no, and I think it's just an ·6· · · · · erroneous opinion.· It's not in line with the ·7· · · · · Bitchatchi case and the Bitchatchi rule with ·8· · · · · respect to effective rebuttals in any ·9· · · · · statutory presumption case, be it World Trade 10· · · · · Center, be it heart, be it stroke. 11· · · · · · · · Titza did not put forth a special rule 12· · · · · for stroke presumptions.· The rule is the same 13· · · · · for every presumption and Bitchatchi set forth 14· · · · · what that rule is which has been a long rule 15· · · · · that was always a practice, and what 16· · · · · Bitchatchi actually did is they borrowed from 17· · · · · the Heart Bill and said you have to have 18· · · · · credible evidence.· You can't deny solely on 19· · · · · the absence of something. 20· · · · · · · · MS. COLLINS:· Right.· We understand.· So 21· · · · · that's a table.· So that's a request for a 22· · · · · table at this point. 23· · · · · · · · MR. CIFUNI:· I was just addressing 24· · · · · Stephanie's offer for a remand.· Thank you. 25· · · · · · · · MS. ZIMBERG:· I wasn't offering a U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC 011 713-653-7100 YVer1f FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 01/27/2023 02:27 PM INDEX NO. 158282/2022 NYSCEF DOC. NO. 23 RECEIVED NYSCEF: 01/27/2023 ·1· · · · · · · · · · · Executive Session ·2· · · · · remand.· I just wanted to correct the record ·3· · · · · that it was one remand for each side, Nick. ·4· · · · · · · · MR. CIFUNI:· Thank you. ·5· · · · · · · · OFFICER ALEJANDRO:· So okay.· So that's ·6· · · · · a table. ·7· · · · 012